4 ms·

Fronius have hybrid inverter for 400V lithium batteries, witch are essentially the same used in cars, the missing part is the integration p.v. inverter-car's BM

by kkfx 4y ago

Fronius have hybrid inverter for 400V lithium batteries, witch are essentially the same used in cars, the missing part is the integration p.v. inverter-car's BMS. Personally having an EV and a Victron inverter with batteries and same vendor car charger I HATE the fact I can't even adapt charging amps depending on p.v. available power in AC charging.

jacquesm 4y ago
Yes, this lack of standardization and ability to communicate is infuriating. I don't have an EV but even without that adding a battery to an existing setup is not that simple, besides being in theory a massive fire hazard, so it can't be in the house. With HA and a bunch of scripts you can actually get quite far in automating all this, but when the grid fails everything will shut down. I'd love to see these babies become more easily (and cheaper!) to source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery The energy density isn't super but for stationary applications that's fine. 6K+ cycles, fast charging, what's not to like?
- kkfx 4y ago
  Actually I have a LIMITED automation with the free inverter GPIO pins who allow a simple open/closed contact depending on how much power is available from p.v., with a bit of scripting to avoid oscillations due to a cloud passing by etc but the issues is still that almost NO APPLIANCE is designed to be piloted like that. Beside modern water heater nothing else is available on sale and even to simply "trigger switches by software" means pay not marginal prices for IoT devices like Shelly ones, who have simply too much stuff, starting from a webui, to justify their costs. Even the simple, decades old modbus, is BADLY spoken just by few devices, MQTT even less...
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Yes, I know what you're up against. It is quite frustrating. I have a habit now of testing new appliances by pulling the plug on them mid-cycle and then to plug them back in again to see if they will continue where they left off, do some graceful recovery (for instance: if the washer will re-heat the water or continue to work with cold water instead). Found a couple of positive surprises and an endless list of disappointments but you only really need one of each to get to a workable solution and this sort of brute force allows you to retrofit remote control into anything by virtue of a powersocket with a local internet hookup. I can definitely recommend the 'Shelly' stuff, it's been absolutely problem free and super reliable, they have a nice range of sensors and controllers.
    - kkfx 4y ago
      Essentially what I want is moderately simple: appliance vendors should offer an optional remote control of the machine, a simple ModBUS, like "hey, if you want, pay this and get a small card allow to replicate/bypass the physical knobs/controls of the appliance, so you can automate it/control it from remote, WITHOUT adding crappy cloud-based services, of course. Some actually have happened, like minisplit with optional remote control module to be installed easily lifting the front top and some hot water heater, but such controls are still very rare and damn limiting... A small example, I cite it because it's not on sale anymore (there is a slightly updated version, with a different name) my home hot water is made with a Daikin/Rotex M2O EKHHP it feature a "renewable integration" witch consist in two dry contacts who allow just to tell the machine: - do not run - run as you want - run full power (heat pump, if possible PLUS classic resistive stick) - run for an hour with heat pump only, then full power. Those who design such logic have NO IDEA about domestic p.v. self consumption. Why the hell such logic instead of: - do not run, except antifreeze - do run full power (heat pump and resistance) - do run ONLY in heat pump mode if possible - do run ONLY with resistance My actual "solution" is: - knowing the outside temperature in HA, so being able to decide if I can run the heat pump or not - decide to trigger the "run for an hour with heat pump only, then full power", switching to "do not run", switch again to "run for an hour with heat pump only, then full power" just to limit the load to ~600-800W of the heat pump, BUT for instance sometimes I can use more, like the 2kW resistive stick BUT NOT 2kW+600-800W and for that I have no option. Sure it does not change my life, but it's absurd. Why not give such simple controls? My VMC is even nicer: it have a range of ModBUS controls, with some registers badly enough documented I can't understand what they mean, some not documented but understandable through observation manually command the machine via it's own keyboard/display. I've decided to buy an absurdly expensive EV domestic charger from the same vendor of my main home inverter, a Victron EVC. It claim formally to be integrated. Actually in p.v. mode all it do is staring a charge at 6A if there is at least them available from p.v. of course if there is room to more amps no way to change them, it seems to be hardcoded. Only option use the manual mode driven via ModBUS from Home Assistant. At that point I do not even understand the dams logic, the only thing better than a far cheaper charger is that it's three-phase, I have a 3-phase 36kVA domestic contract so if I need a quicker charge I can run around 7*3kW from grid. But that's all. Other domestic chargers for EVs are not better and still with absurdly high price for a simple metered socket with some extras on a mini-board computer, something who can cost around 30€...

by kkfx 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago

Yes, this lack of standardization and ability to communicate is infuriating. I don't have an EV but even without that adding a battery to an existing setup is not that simple, besides being in theory a massive fire hazard, so it can't be in the house. With HA and a bunch of scripts you can actually get quite far in automating all this, but when the grid fails everything will shut down. I'd love to see these babies become more easily (and cheaper!) to source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery The energy density isn't super but for stationary applications that's fine. 6K+ cycles, fast charging, what's not to like?

kkfx 4y ago
Actually I have a LIMITED automation with the free inverter GPIO pins who allow a simple open/closed contact depending on how much power is available from p.v., with a bit of scripting to avoid oscillations due to a cloud passing by etc but the issues is still that almost NO APPLIANCE is designed to be piloted like that. Beside modern water heater nothing else is available on sale and even to simply "trigger switches by software" means pay not marginal prices for IoT devices like Shelly ones, who have simply too much stuff, starting from a webui, to justify their costs. Even the simple, decades old modbus, is BADLY spoken just by few devices, MQTT even less...
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Yes, I know what you're up against. It is quite frustrating. I have a habit now of testing new appliances by pulling the plug on them mid-cycle and then to plug them back in again to see if they will continue where they left off, do some graceful recovery (for instance: if the washer will re-heat the water or continue to work with cold water instead). Found a couple of positive surprises and an endless list of disappointments but you only really need one of each to get to a workable solution and this sort of brute force allows you to retrofit remote control into anything by virtue of a powersocket with a local internet hookup. I can definitely recommend the 'Shelly' stuff, it's been absolutely problem free and super reliable, they have a nice range of sensors and controllers.
  - kkfx 4y ago
    Essentially what I want is moderately simple: appliance vendors should offer an optional remote control of the machine, a simple ModBUS, like "hey, if you want, pay this and get a small card allow to replicate/bypass the physical knobs/controls of the appliance, so you can automate it/control it from remote, WITHOUT adding crappy cloud-based services, of course. Some actually have happened, like minisplit with optional remote control module to be installed easily lifting the front top and some hot water heater, but such controls are still very rare and damn limiting... A small example, I cite it because it's not on sale anymore (there is a slightly updated version, with a different name) my home hot water is made with a Daikin/Rotex M2O EKHHP it feature a "renewable integration" witch consist in two dry contacts who allow just to tell the machine: - do not run - run as you want - run full power (heat pump, if possible PLUS classic resistive stick) - run for an hour with heat pump only, then full power. Those who design such logic have NO IDEA about domestic p.v. self consumption. Why the hell such logic instead of: - do not run, except antifreeze - do run full power (heat pump and resistance) - do run ONLY in heat pump mode if possible - do run ONLY with resistance My actual "solution" is: - knowing the outside temperature in HA, so being able to decide if I can run the heat pump or not - decide to trigger the "run for an hour with heat pump only, then full power", switching to "do not run", switch again to "run for an hour with heat pump only, then full power" just to limit the load to ~600-800W of the heat pump, BUT for instance sometimes I can use more, like the 2kW resistive stick BUT NOT 2kW+600-800W and for that I have no option. Sure it does not change my life, but it's absurd. Why not give such simple controls? My VMC is even nicer: it have a range of ModBUS controls, with some registers badly enough documented I can't understand what they mean, some not documented but understandable through observation manually command the machine via it's own keyboard/display. I've decided to buy an absurdly expensive EV domestic charger from the same vendor of my main home inverter, a Victron EVC. It claim formally to be integrated. Actually in p.v. mode all it do is staring a charge at 6A if there is at least them available from p.v. of course if there is room to more amps no way to change them, it seems to be hardcoded. Only option use the manual mode driven via ModBUS from Home Assistant. At that point I do not even understand the dams logic, the only thing better than a far cheaper charger is that it's three-phase, I have a 3-phase 36kVA domestic contract so if I need a quicker charge I can run around 7*3kW from grid. But that's all. Other domestic chargers for EVs are not better and still with absurdly high price for a simple metered socket with some extras on a mini-board computer, something who can cost around 30€...