6 ms·

I mean, if I were providing one of these feeds, I'd probably shut it down and look for (or create) a new community-driven alternative.

capableweb 4y ago
I chose to contribute my collected ADS-B data to ADS-B Exchange rather than Flightradar24 just because ADS-B Exchange was community driven and not owned by a company. I just turned off my sharing and looking for alternatives. If anyone know of any, please share them :)
- nerpderp82 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Operyl 4y ago
    Man, the blockchain being inserted wherever it doesn't need to be is becoming rampant on HN, isn't it? Humor me, though, how would that work and why would the cost of running a "blockchain," both in terms of money and energy wasted, be better than a simple feed aggregator?
    - nerpderp82 4y ago
      A signed append only log, distributed with webtorrent would provide provenance and distribution. This would allow for not having to have dedicated infrastructure for collection. One could also use USENET and get rid of the garbage will killfiles.
      - Operyl 4y ago
        And who maintains the signing keys? It's just as centralized, with tons more complexity.. EDIT: Regardless, the point I'm making is this is just way more work for something that really doesn't need a blockchain.
        nerpderp82 4y ago
        It really isn't. Everyone hopping on to the next fad-air-trak-site.io is going to reproduce the same problem. Distributing the data over webtorrent from the beginning will make data access democratic.
        Operyl 4y ago
        Something that happens once in a blue moon, for data that is already in multiple locations (to varying degrees of precision).. You've failed to sell it to me, I'll continue to contribute to the simpler solutions that won't need a crap ton of extra work, thanks.
        nerpderp82 4y ago
        Not advocating you stop or that your solution is wrong. If you are going to log, I'd look into CF offerings.
        fudgefactorfive 4y ago
        Can you explain how you'd use Webtorrent to synchronize a large dataset that's updated in realtime? If you mean to get a P2P transport wouldn't WebRTC be what you're aiming for? I'm genuinely curious but isn't Webtorrent just using WebRTC to join a Torrent Swarm? Torrents are fundamentally immutable, the identifier is a static hash of the content of the torrent. That would mean producing a new torrent for each new data point or chunk of data points only to then submit that hash to a WebRTC based connection to again fetch torrent content? Genuinely curious, I'm interested in how torrent swarms can be used for novell applications.
      - harshreality 4y ago
        There are thousands of people contributing ADS-B data many times a minute. You can't just "create a blockchain". Blockchains depend on hashing power for security. A new niche chain provides very little security, and a rich person like Elon could set up a hash cluster to out-hash everyone else and block updates for his jets. In order to fund hashing power and security, there has to be economic incentive for the miners. That requires some token, which ultimately requires everyone who submits updates to pay a fee. The reasons I and many other people provide ADS-B data to aggregation sites is that it's free (minus the one-time cost of the hardware) and I get something in return: a free upgraded account which, depending on the site, enables historical flight searches. If I lost money every time I provided data, it wouldn't make any sense to continue. I also wouldn't want to have to download an entire (or a good chunk of a) blockchain or raw data ledger to check history for a tail number. That's what I'd have to do if it were truly decentralized. Ledgers do not provide efficient indexing.
        nerpderp82 4y ago
        It would be data signed by a key and added to a torrent swarm. This would only handle data collection, someone would still need to sync the swarm and process/visualize it.
    - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
      I assumed that was satire or sarcasm.
      - Operyl 4y ago
        Given his entire chain above your comment, it was a serious comment.
      - kelnos 4y ago
        So did I, before I read the entire reply chain :(
- LVDOVICVS 4y ago
  I just heard about https://opensky-network.org/ https://opensky-network.org/ "The OpenSky Network is a non-profit community-based receiver network which has been continuously collecting air traffic surveillance data since 2013. Unlike other networks, OpenSky keeps the complete unfiltered raw data and makes it accessible to academic and institutional researchers."
mike_d 4y ago
I helped out a bit with ADSBExchange. The all volunteer staff were completely blindsided by this. The founder just took a payday and ran. For what it is worth, I don't actually know what the PE company bought. I guess the historical data and a rack full of servers - but the staff, community, and service are moving elsewhere.
- nocoiner 4y ago
  One would think there would be recent lessons to be learned on how to vaporize value in connection with an asset-light acquisition… Actually, the guy who sold probably did learn those lessons. Best of luck to the buyer, I suppose.
- totoglazer 4y ago
  Where to?
  - dx034 4y ago
    Opensky seems to be the only non profit network left?
    - fires 4y ago
      It's the only one that was always a non-profit by the way - the fact that ADSBX was an LLC should have been a giveaway, also to the employees/volunteers.
  - KirillPanov 4y ago
    This would be a great use for nostr. Instead of everybody uploading their data to one dude who can sell out, instead flood-fill it. We're not talking about a lot of data here.
    - mike_d 4y ago
      > We're not talking about a lot of data here It is actually a massive amount of data. Gigabits per second that need to be aggregated, sorted by geographic region, fed into multilateration systems, and cleaning the output before it can be shown on a map.

capableweb 4y ago

I chose to contribute my collected ADS-B data to ADS-B Exchange rather than Flightradar24 just because ADS-B Exchange was community driven and not owned by a company. I just turned off my sharing and looking for alternatives. If anyone know of any, please share them :)

nerpderp82 4y ago
[flagged]
- Operyl 4y ago
  Man, the blockchain being inserted wherever it doesn't need to be is becoming rampant on HN, isn't it? Humor me, though, how would that work and why would the cost of running a "blockchain," both in terms of money and energy wasted, be better than a simple feed aggregator?
  - nerpderp82 4y ago
    A signed append only log, distributed with webtorrent would provide provenance and distribution. This would allow for not having to have dedicated infrastructure for collection. One could also use USENET and get rid of the garbage will killfiles.
    - Operyl 4y ago
      And who maintains the signing keys? It's just as centralized, with tons more complexity.. EDIT: Regardless, the point I'm making is this is just way more work for something that really doesn't need a blockchain.
      - nerpderp82 4y ago
        It really isn't. Everyone hopping on to the next fad-air-trak-site.io is going to reproduce the same problem. Distributing the data over webtorrent from the beginning will make data access democratic.
        Operyl 4y ago
        Something that happens once in a blue moon, for data that is already in multiple locations (to varying degrees of precision).. You've failed to sell it to me, I'll continue to contribute to the simpler solutions that won't need a crap ton of extra work, thanks.
        nerpderp82 4y ago
        Not advocating you stop or that your solution is wrong. If you are going to log, I'd look into CF offerings.
        fudgefactorfive 4y ago
        Can you explain how you'd use Webtorrent to synchronize a large dataset that's updated in realtime? If you mean to get a P2P transport wouldn't WebRTC be what you're aiming for? I'm genuinely curious but isn't Webtorrent just using WebRTC to join a Torrent Swarm? Torrents are fundamentally immutable, the identifier is a static hash of the content of the torrent. That would mean producing a new torrent for each new data point or chunk of data points only to then submit that hash to a WebRTC based connection to again fetch torrent content? Genuinely curious, I'm interested in how torrent swarms can be used for novell applications.
    - harshreality 4y ago
      There are thousands of people contributing ADS-B data many times a minute. You can't just "create a blockchain". Blockchains depend on hashing power for security. A new niche chain provides very little security, and a rich person like Elon could set up a hash cluster to out-hash everyone else and block updates for his jets. In order to fund hashing power and security, there has to be economic incentive for the miners. That requires some token, which ultimately requires everyone who submits updates to pay a fee. The reasons I and many other people provide ADS-B data to aggregation sites is that it's free (minus the one-time cost of the hardware) and I get something in return: a free upgraded account which, depending on the site, enables historical flight searches. If I lost money every time I provided data, it wouldn't make any sense to continue. I also wouldn't want to have to download an entire (or a good chunk of a) blockchain or raw data ledger to check history for a tail number. That's what I'd have to do if it were truly decentralized. Ledgers do not provide efficient indexing.
      - nerpderp82 4y ago
        It would be data signed by a key and added to a torrent swarm. This would only handle data collection, someone would still need to sync the swarm and process/visualize it.
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    I assumed that was satire or sarcasm.
    - Operyl 4y ago
      Given his entire chain above your comment, it was a serious comment.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      So did I, before I read the entire reply chain :(
LVDOVICVS 4y ago
I just heard about https://opensky-network.org/ https://opensky-network.org/ "The OpenSky Network is a non-profit community-based receiver network which has been continuously collecting air traffic surveillance data since 2013. Unlike other networks, OpenSky keeps the complete unfiltered raw data and makes it accessible to academic and institutional researchers."

mike_d 4y ago

I helped out a bit with ADSBExchange. The all volunteer staff were completely blindsided by this. The founder just took a payday and ran. For what it is worth, I don't actually know what the PE company bought. I guess the historical data and a rack full of servers - but the staff, community, and service are moving elsewhere.

nocoiner 4y ago
One would think there would be recent lessons to be learned on how to vaporize value in connection with an asset-light acquisition… Actually, the guy who sold probably did learn those lessons. Best of luck to the buyer, I suppose.
totoglazer 4y ago
Where to?
- dx034 4y ago
  Opensky seems to be the only non profit network left?
  - fires 4y ago
    It's the only one that was always a non-profit by the way - the fact that ADSBX was an LLC should have been a giveaway, also to the employees/volunteers.
- KirillPanov 4y ago
  This would be a great use for nostr. Instead of everybody uploading their data to one dude who can sell out, instead flood-fill it. We're not talking about a lot of data here.
  - mike_d 4y ago
    > We're not talking about a lot of data here It is actually a massive amount of data. Gigabits per second that need to be aggregated, sorted by geographic region, fed into multilateration systems, and cleaning the output before it can be shown on a map.