6 ms·

I would say it's more a deconstruction of fiction, generally, rather than subversion of sitcoms. Most plots are decidedly non-sitcommy. I would also say Dan Ha

I would say it's more a deconstruction of fiction, generally, rather than subversion of sitcoms. Most plots are decidedly non-sitcommy. I would also say Dan Harmon's previous work on Community is so filled to the brim with meta-analyses, parodies, homages, and self reflection that it's probably more him than Justin on the writing side. I'd ALSO say that I don't think Rick and Morty suggests Rick's behaviors or beliefs are praiseworthy. The dude is super depressed and toxic. Including of course the episode in which his toxicity become manifest.

jjulius 4y ago
>I'd ALSO say that I don't think Rick and Morty suggests Rick's behaviors or beliefs are praiseworthy. The dude is super depressed and toxic. I wouldn't say they're praiseworthy, but - and forgive me for any ignorance here - it's often felt like a strong, vocal portion of the show's/Rick's fanbase comes from this type of person.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  shrug. I'm not sure what the name is for the inverse of leopard ate my face but this falls squarely in the bucket of people getting mad and surprised when they find out rage against the machine was opposed to the machine. Lots of people will pay not attention to the art they consume and assume that because they like it, it agrees with their beliefs. It's not a reflection on the art.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  Oh totally. There is a large segment of Rick and Morty fans who have not internalised that Rick Sanchez is _not_ a role model. They lay out that he is not a role model pretty clearly here: https://www.themarysue.com/pickle-rick-therapy/ https://www.themarysue.com/pickle-rick-therapy/
dTal 4y ago
Super depressed and toxic and always right. He's shown as being that way because he understands the world better. The show might not praise him directly, but until the most recent seasons (where they appear to be trying to undo some damage) it consistently showed that he is a more effective person because of it. Another example of the subversion that reinforces this "truth = negativity" moral: (Spoilers) The episode where they're trapped in the house with shapeshifting memory-modifying aliens pretending to be loved family members. Traditionally you would expect such a problem to be resolved through the power of love, or some other positive quality that bonds the family in a way the aliens can't fake. Rick and Morty inverts it and the problem is solved through the power of resentment. The message is clear - reality is ugly and messy and painful, and "love" is a powerful illusion created to fill a biological purpose, and you should be suspicious of it if you want to act rationally, which you should. Admittedly, the Mr Poopybutthole denouement partially redeems the episode by subverting its own point and cautioning against taking it too far, but the same message crops up too often in Rick and Morty to be ignored.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Being right does generally lead to being depressed and "toxic", because people (one's self and others) aren't happy thinking in terms of cold hard truths. At least that is my experience. The constructive analysis is the show isn't meant to be an example for fully formed adults to emulate. Rather it's a coping mechanism. Have you ever had to spend weeks of your life dealing with bureaucrats, while they drown you with their sea of forms and policies? cf. "They're just robots, Morty!". That does not inspire me to go out and start shooting bureaucrats as they do in the show. Rather I just appreciate someone else casually cutting through to the ugly dynamic of the social mire. The main difference between Rick and real-world intelligence is that Rick just blurts things out while those of us in the real world learn to tone it down and be highly selective about attacking social consensuses. But Rick blurting things out is the only way for the viewer to know them - the show isn't based around his internal monologue. Additionally there are a lot of kids figuring out their place in the world, and looking for truths they can trust. Being technically correct is one of those truths. That some kids end up emulating the whole character is just stupid youthful experimentation that we all look back on and cringe. The fact they're expressing it on web forums and you're reading it and can't see that it was written by a prepubescent noob has more to do with the vanishing spaces of childhood than anything else.
- arp242 4y ago
  A significant chunk of iconic comedy characters are horrible people. Basil Fawlty, Blackadder, David Brent, Malcolm Tucker, Homer Simpson, Hyacinth B̶u̶c̶k̶e̶t̶ Bouquet, etc. etc. Some of these characters have redeemable aspects as well; Homer Simpson is a dedicated family man who clearly very much loves Marge and his kids; there are some scenes that are quite sweet. But he's not being very funny in those scenes, he's being funny when he's selfish, lazy, alcoholic, and generally just a jerk. Even in comedies where the characters aren't jerks such as Brooklyn 99, many of the characters would still be horrible in actual real life. Can you imagine working with Jake? Overall, I think it's a mistake to overthink comedic characters too much; sometimes something funny is just funny, and just because character X is horrible doesn't mean the creators are trying to send any sort of message. It's certainly a mistake to emulate these sort of characters or take life lessons from them. This kind of reminds me of the video game debates. Yes, in video game X you go around shooting people to solve your problems, but in real life you don't. I think everyone understands that. Rick reminds me of the Elves in Lord of the Rings. Tired, weary of life, sort of past caring; the curse of immortality. Rick has the curse of being nigh-omnipotent.
deleted 4y ago
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mnky9800n 4y ago
yeah i kind of thought the entire point was that dan harmon has a very particular view on what fiction is and how it works. He then deconstructs this in every episode. In season 3 he starts deconstructing what television is. In season 4 he starts deconstructing his own theory of story telling. In season 5 he deconstructs the universe he created. the cleverness of the show comes from it's constant deconstruction of storytelling and each iteration doing it in a different way is what makes it work. And i would say the difference between this show and Community is that nobody seems to tone down this deconstruction in any way.

jjulius 4y ago

>I'd ALSO say that I don't think Rick and Morty suggests Rick's behaviors or beliefs are praiseworthy. The dude is super depressed and toxic. I wouldn't say they're praiseworthy, but - and forgive me for any ignorance here - it's often felt like a strong, vocal portion of the show's/Rick's fanbase comes from this type of person.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
shrug. I'm not sure what the name is for the inverse of leopard ate my face but this falls squarely in the bucket of people getting mad and surprised when they find out rage against the machine was opposed to the machine. Lots of people will pay not attention to the art they consume and assume that because they like it, it agrees with their beliefs. It's not a reflection on the art.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
Oh totally. There is a large segment of Rick and Morty fans who have not internalised that Rick Sanchez is _not_ a role model. They lay out that he is not a role model pretty clearly here: https://www.themarysue.com/pickle-rick-therapy/ https://www.themarysue.com/pickle-rick-therapy/

dTal 4y ago

Super depressed and toxic and always right. He's shown as being that way because he understands the world better. The show might not praise him directly, but until the most recent seasons (where they appear to be trying to undo some damage) it consistently showed that he is a more effective person because of it. Another example of the subversion that reinforces this "truth = negativity" moral: (Spoilers) The episode where they're trapped in the house with shapeshifting memory-modifying aliens pretending to be loved family members. Traditionally you would expect such a problem to be resolved through the power of love, or some other positive quality that bonds the family in a way the aliens can't fake. Rick and Morty inverts it and the problem is solved through the power of resentment. The message is clear - reality is ugly and messy and painful, and "love" is a powerful illusion created to fill a biological purpose, and you should be suspicious of it if you want to act rationally, which you should. Admittedly, the Mr Poopybutthole denouement partially redeems the episode by subverting its own point and cautioning against taking it too far, but the same message crops up too often in Rick and Morty to be ignored.

mindslight 4y ago
Being right does generally lead to being depressed and "toxic", because people (one's self and others) aren't happy thinking in terms of cold hard truths. At least that is my experience. The constructive analysis is the show isn't meant to be an example for fully formed adults to emulate. Rather it's a coping mechanism. Have you ever had to spend weeks of your life dealing with bureaucrats, while they drown you with their sea of forms and policies? cf. "They're just robots, Morty!". That does not inspire me to go out and start shooting bureaucrats as they do in the show. Rather I just appreciate someone else casually cutting through to the ugly dynamic of the social mire. The main difference between Rick and real-world intelligence is that Rick just blurts things out while those of us in the real world learn to tone it down and be highly selective about attacking social consensuses. But Rick blurting things out is the only way for the viewer to know them - the show isn't based around his internal monologue. Additionally there are a lot of kids figuring out their place in the world, and looking for truths they can trust. Being technically correct is one of those truths. That some kids end up emulating the whole character is just stupid youthful experimentation that we all look back on and cringe. The fact they're expressing it on web forums and you're reading it and can't see that it was written by a prepubescent noob has more to do with the vanishing spaces of childhood than anything else.
arp242 4y ago
A significant chunk of iconic comedy characters are horrible people. Basil Fawlty, Blackadder, David Brent, Malcolm Tucker, Homer Simpson, Hyacinth B̶u̶c̶k̶e̶t̶ Bouquet, etc. etc. Some of these characters have redeemable aspects as well; Homer Simpson is a dedicated family man who clearly very much loves Marge and his kids; there are some scenes that are quite sweet. But he's not being very funny in those scenes, he's being funny when he's selfish, lazy, alcoholic, and generally just a jerk. Even in comedies where the characters aren't jerks such as Brooklyn 99, many of the characters would still be horrible in actual real life. Can you imagine working with Jake? Overall, I think it's a mistake to overthink comedic characters too much; sometimes something funny is just funny, and just because character X is horrible doesn't mean the creators are trying to send any sort of message. It's certainly a mistake to emulate these sort of characters or take life lessons from them. This kind of reminds me of the video game debates. Yes, in video game X you go around shooting people to solve your problems, but in real life you don't. I think everyone understands that. Rick reminds me of the Elves in Lord of the Rings. Tired, weary of life, sort of past caring; the curse of immortality. Rick has the curse of being nigh-omnipotent.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mnky9800n 4y ago

yeah i kind of thought the entire point was that dan harmon has a very particular view on what fiction is and how it works. He then deconstructs this in every episode. In season 3 he starts deconstructing what television is. In season 4 he starts deconstructing his own theory of story telling. In season 5 he deconstructs the universe he created. the cleverness of the show comes from it's constant deconstruction of storytelling and each iteration doing it in a different way is what makes it work. And i would say the difference between this show and Community is that nobody seems to tone down this deconstruction in any way.