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Amazing. There was a time, nearly 20 years ago, that I was let go from Adobe. My colleagues assumed that because of my position/tenure/knowledge that I was layo

Amazing. There was a time, nearly 20 years ago, that I was let go from Adobe. My colleagues assumed that because of my position/tenure/knowledge that I was layoff-proof. I told them that I was just a number in a large organization, and that orgs of a certain scale don’t do layoffs in a way that looks at each individual. Sure enough I was let go and after 16 years at the same company, that was acquired by Adobe where I spent 5 years, my overall feeling was “meh, I knew the end was nigh”. Since then I’ve been a contractor, and I couldn’t be happier. The relationship between me and my client is simple: I work, and they pay me. Sure there’s no stock option perks, but on the other hand I never have to deal with HR processes, submit quarterly objectives, etc. I work, I get paid. I know when the contract will end, and either the client renews the contract or I go somewhere else. It’s all fine. For me, reducing my work life down to such a simple transactional level has been incredibly freeing and stress reducing, and allowed me to focus even more clearly on the work.

l1silver 4y ago
But isn't the inbetween contract jobs a tenuous time?
- berniedurfee 4y ago
  I’ve considered independent contracting many times in my career. But I just could never get past the possibility of the stress of being in between gigs.
  - andai 4y ago
    Did you read the article? What about the stress of being in between jobs? You have a single point of failure that's outside your control. With contracting, you can take as many clients as you can handle, and you'd have to lose all your clients simultaneously to end up in an equivalent position.
    - berniedurfee 4y ago
      That’s still a greater risk though. If you end up in the position where you do lose all your clients simultaneously, it can be catastrophic. I suppose it’s also the hustle of finding new clients that never interested me much.
- gavinmckenzie 4y ago
  In the first couple of years I would worry about this, but I haven’t in a very long time. The only occasions when I’ve had a gap between contracts is when I’ve chosen to take a break. I manage my finances to ensure I have several months of equivalent income saved. My process is that 60 days before the end of my current contract, whether my current client has said they intend to renew or not, I start seeking other contract opportunities. If my client finalizes the renewal, I halt my job search. If they don’t, the 60 day window has consistently been long enough to ensure I have my next client lined up before my current contract ends. Most of my contracts are 12 months long. I don’t take contracts any shorter than 6 months. I should note that I’m in Canada and so I don’t have to worry about healthcare coverage.
  - htrp 4y ago
    > I should note that I’m in Canada and so I don’t have to worry about healthcare coverage. Basically anywhere with a robust social safety net (not the USA) Do you find that you get less comp for your contracts working in Canada?
    - gavinmckenzie 4y ago
      Historically, yes. Post-pandemic, not as much. When the pandemic caused a migration to work-from-home and companies increased their remote-hiring efforts, I expected that the move to “work from anywhere, hire from anywhere” would push contracting rates down. Oddly in my experience in the mobile (iOS) development space the opposite happened, and rates increased significantly. Those higher rates have held steady for two years now and appear to be permanent. Plus I’m increasingly taking contracts with U.S. clients. Of course a full-time FAANG employee with stock options etc. will have a higher total compensation compared to me, but overall I’m making more than I ever have and I’m much happier compared to when I was a full-time employee.
  - turdprincess 4y ago
    contacted for many years as well. All my contracts always ran a year or longer. In the end, it felt very similar to full time employment - it was 9 - 5, regular meetings, coworkers, etc.. At the same time, I didn’t get any benefits, health insurance or paid holidays. I am not sure I want to contract like that again. It has most of the downsides of regular employment but none of the benefits. I think in the USA it would make more sense to just switch full time jobs every two years and take breaks between. Id love to try contracting again but more like true “consulting” - higher rate and fewer hours. I am not sure though that pure dev work could be high leverage like that - it just takes too damn long
- Swizec 4y ago
  > But isn't the inbetween contract jobs a tenuous time? This is priced into the contract. I've done both FTE and contracting. They both have their benefits. Looking at my FTE job with the attitude of "This is a business relationship – you pay me, I work" has been the best balance for me. You can do more deeper bigger things than you can as a contractor plus the lottery tickets are nice. Honestly, if companies wanna pay extra (they do) for me to go "Rah rah rah $Company is changing the world!" and wear swag, so be it. When $OtherCompany pays more/better, I'll do it for them. Just like an athlete changing clubs.
  - gavinmckenzie 4y ago
    This is very true. Though it’s really tough for most employees (especially the 20-somethings) to resist the internal tribal messaging from their employers and instead see their employment relationship as just transactional.
    - sybercecurity 4y ago
      I wonder if this is due to lack of job experience at that young age? Prior to that, young adults were in school, which fostered a community view beyond just paying for classes/degree. I know I learned about how large corps view labor when I worked summers at a big box retailer. I viewed that as purely transactional as well: I stock shelves, you give me money. Plus Gen-X often watched our parents get laid off when we were younger, so there's that lesson too.
      - gavinmckenzie 4y ago
        Ha, yes our Gen-X “slacker” generation (LOL) started out with a potentially different worldview. I think you’ve described the challenge 20-somethings face when it comes to resisting the tribal messaging from their employer pretty well — coming out of school many people want to continue that sense of belonging. People develop close friendships, and romantic relationships, and they connect that to their work experience. Employer messaging around being part of a family and striving to a higher purpose is meant to foster loyalty and better productivity. The flip-side is when layoffs happen the employees who have bought into these team/family ideals feel betrayed, and I’ve seen people struggle with coming to terms how their employer could let valuable people go after being told how special and important they were. And to be clear, lots of these people are special and important; but that’s obviously not a protection against big businesses looking after their own selfish interests first.
- Phlarp 4y ago
  Compared to what? Either you're on contract and they could simply not renew it when the 1/3/6 month timeline is up, or you're an employee and they could simply lay you off without warning on a completely unpredictable and arbitrary timeline. Everything is tenuous compared to living off the safe withdrawal rate of a $10 million diversified investment portfolio.
  - sbarre 4y ago
    I think the idea here is that when you're on contract, you are much more aware that your employment is time-limited and transactional. So you live your life, financially and otherwise, with this in mind. I have no doubt that this sounds (and would be) more stressful for some people, when compared to full-time employment, particularly in the US where your job is typically tied to health care and other benefits. But most folks I know who have been laid off from long-term employment were shocked by (and ill-prepared for) the event.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Of course they both have risk categorically, but they differ greatly in magnitude and scheduling. With Contracting you know that there is say a 50% chance the contract will expire on a given date and can plan accordingly. As a direct employee there is say a one percent chance you'll be laid off and it could come at random times.
  - jsimzeroone 4y ago
    There's an old cliche that when you go from being an employee to being a contractor you trade the illusion of security for the illusion of freedom.
- sjducb 4y ago
  The time between contracts is amazing. I spend loads of time with my kids and go on adventures. I need to do about 4 months of work to cover my family's living expenses, then another 2 to make sure I've saved adequately for retirement, then ideally I take 6 months off.
  - l1silver 4y ago
    Seriously? Do you live off grid or something?
    - sjducb 4y ago
      I live in the UK where the cost of living is very low (less than half that of the US), and contractor wages are high. Contractor wages are so high in the UK because our labour laws are so strong. Companies will pay a huge premium to be able to terminate my contract with a week's notice.
berniedurfee 4y ago
Yes, large companies execute layoffs en masse by location, function or group, regardless of individual qualifications, in order to avoid discrimination lawsuits. Though, there are always workarounds when managers want to keep their highest performers off the list.
- azinman2 4y ago
  Until they’re part of the layoffs too.
  - berniedurfee 4y ago
    There by the grace of my boss go I.
    - chrisweekly 4y ago
      It's "BUT for the grace of", meaning "if not for".
      - berniedurfee 4y ago
        Ah, thanks, I borked the punchline. :)
- bart_spoon 4y ago
  > Though, there are always workarounds when managers want to keep their highest performers off the list. Never assume you are safe. I was a single point of failure on a team that was supposed to be revving up for some pretty important strategic initiatives. My manager put me on a “do not fire” list prior to the company conducting a layoff of 30% of the company last fall. Still got canned. My manager went tried to determine why I had been let go when he specifically indicated I was a single point of failure . Turns out, it was because someone in HR had mixed up some spreadsheets :/

l1silver 4y ago

But isn't the inbetween contract jobs a tenuous time?

berniedurfee 4y ago
I’ve considered independent contracting many times in my career. But I just could never get past the possibility of the stress of being in between gigs.
- andai 4y ago
  Did you read the article? What about the stress of being in between jobs? You have a single point of failure that's outside your control. With contracting, you can take as many clients as you can handle, and you'd have to lose all your clients simultaneously to end up in an equivalent position.
  - berniedurfee 4y ago
    That’s still a greater risk though. If you end up in the position where you do lose all your clients simultaneously, it can be catastrophic. I suppose it’s also the hustle of finding new clients that never interested me much.
gavinmckenzie 4y ago
In the first couple of years I would worry about this, but I haven’t in a very long time. The only occasions when I’ve had a gap between contracts is when I’ve chosen to take a break. I manage my finances to ensure I have several months of equivalent income saved. My process is that 60 days before the end of my current contract, whether my current client has said they intend to renew or not, I start seeking other contract opportunities. If my client finalizes the renewal, I halt my job search. If they don’t, the 60 day window has consistently been long enough to ensure I have my next client lined up before my current contract ends. Most of my contracts are 12 months long. I don’t take contracts any shorter than 6 months. I should note that I’m in Canada and so I don’t have to worry about healthcare coverage.
- htrp 4y ago
  > I should note that I’m in Canada and so I don’t have to worry about healthcare coverage. Basically anywhere with a robust social safety net (not the USA) Do you find that you get less comp for your contracts working in Canada?
  - gavinmckenzie 4y ago
    Historically, yes. Post-pandemic, not as much. When the pandemic caused a migration to work-from-home and companies increased their remote-hiring efforts, I expected that the move to “work from anywhere, hire from anywhere” would push contracting rates down. Oddly in my experience in the mobile (iOS) development space the opposite happened, and rates increased significantly. Those higher rates have held steady for two years now and appear to be permanent. Plus I’m increasingly taking contracts with U.S. clients. Of course a full-time FAANG employee with stock options etc. will have a higher total compensation compared to me, but overall I’m making more than I ever have and I’m much happier compared to when I was a full-time employee.
- turdprincess 4y ago
  contacted for many years as well. All my contracts always ran a year or longer. In the end, it felt very similar to full time employment - it was 9 - 5, regular meetings, coworkers, etc.. At the same time, I didn’t get any benefits, health insurance or paid holidays. I am not sure I want to contract like that again. It has most of the downsides of regular employment but none of the benefits. I think in the USA it would make more sense to just switch full time jobs every two years and take breaks between. Id love to try contracting again but more like true “consulting” - higher rate and fewer hours. I am not sure though that pure dev work could be high leverage like that - it just takes too damn long
Swizec 4y ago
> But isn't the inbetween contract jobs a tenuous time? This is priced into the contract. I've done both FTE and contracting. They both have their benefits. Looking at my FTE job with the attitude of "This is a business relationship – you pay me, I work" has been the best balance for me. You can do more deeper bigger things than you can as a contractor plus the lottery tickets are nice. Honestly, if companies wanna pay extra (they do) for me to go "Rah rah rah $Company is changing the world!" and wear swag, so be it. When $OtherCompany pays more/better, I'll do it for them. Just like an athlete changing clubs.
- gavinmckenzie 4y ago
  This is very true. Though it’s really tough for most employees (especially the 20-somethings) to resist the internal tribal messaging from their employers and instead see their employment relationship as just transactional.
  - sybercecurity 4y ago
    I wonder if this is due to lack of job experience at that young age? Prior to that, young adults were in school, which fostered a community view beyond just paying for classes/degree. I know I learned about how large corps view labor when I worked summers at a big box retailer. I viewed that as purely transactional as well: I stock shelves, you give me money. Plus Gen-X often watched our parents get laid off when we were younger, so there's that lesson too.
    - gavinmckenzie 4y ago
      Ha, yes our Gen-X “slacker” generation (LOL) started out with a potentially different worldview. I think you’ve described the challenge 20-somethings face when it comes to resisting the tribal messaging from their employer pretty well — coming out of school many people want to continue that sense of belonging. People develop close friendships, and romantic relationships, and they connect that to their work experience. Employer messaging around being part of a family and striving to a higher purpose is meant to foster loyalty and better productivity. The flip-side is when layoffs happen the employees who have bought into these team/family ideals feel betrayed, and I’ve seen people struggle with coming to terms how their employer could let valuable people go after being told how special and important they were. And to be clear, lots of these people are special and important; but that’s obviously not a protection against big businesses looking after their own selfish interests first.
Phlarp 4y ago
Compared to what? Either you're on contract and they could simply not renew it when the 1/3/6 month timeline is up, or you're an employee and they could simply lay you off without warning on a completely unpredictable and arbitrary timeline. Everything is tenuous compared to living off the safe withdrawal rate of a $10 million diversified investment portfolio.
- sbarre 4y ago
  I think the idea here is that when you're on contract, you are much more aware that your employment is time-limited and transactional. So you live your life, financially and otherwise, with this in mind. I have no doubt that this sounds (and would be) more stressful for some people, when compared to full-time employment, particularly in the US where your job is typically tied to health care and other benefits. But most folks I know who have been laid off from long-term employment were shocked by (and ill-prepared for) the event.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Of course they both have risk categorically, but they differ greatly in magnitude and scheduling. With Contracting you know that there is say a 50% chance the contract will expire on a given date and can plan accordingly. As a direct employee there is say a one percent chance you'll be laid off and it could come at random times.
- jsimzeroone 4y ago
  There's an old cliche that when you go from being an employee to being a contractor you trade the illusion of security for the illusion of freedom.
sjducb 4y ago
The time between contracts is amazing. I spend loads of time with my kids and go on adventures. I need to do about 4 months of work to cover my family's living expenses, then another 2 to make sure I've saved adequately for retirement, then ideally I take 6 months off.
- l1silver 4y ago
  Seriously? Do you live off grid or something?
  - sjducb 4y ago
    I live in the UK where the cost of living is very low (less than half that of the US), and contractor wages are high. Contractor wages are so high in the UK because our labour laws are so strong. Companies will pay a huge premium to be able to terminate my contract with a week's notice.

berniedurfee 4y ago

Yes, large companies execute layoffs en masse by location, function or group, regardless of individual qualifications, in order to avoid discrimination lawsuits. Though, there are always workarounds when managers want to keep their highest performers off the list.

azinman2 4y ago
Until they’re part of the layoffs too.
- berniedurfee 4y ago
  There by the grace of my boss go I.
  - chrisweekly 4y ago
    It's "BUT for the grace of", meaning "if not for".
    - berniedurfee 4y ago
      Ah, thanks, I borked the punchline. :)
bart_spoon 4y ago
> Though, there are always workarounds when managers want to keep their highest performers off the list. Never assume you are safe. I was a single point of failure on a team that was supposed to be revving up for some pretty important strategic initiatives. My manager put me on a “do not fire” list prior to the company conducting a layoff of 30% of the company last fall. Still got canned. My manager went tried to determine why I had been let go when he specifically indicated I was a single point of failure . Turns out, it was because someone in HR had mixed up some spreadsheets :/