3 ms·

> They're a business, they need to reallocate capital and headcount Consider this: no, they don't.

linkjuice4all 4y ago
To that point - didn't these companies and their investors "invest" in a bunch of human resources and then devalue them by either laying them off or giving the work of laid-off workers to the remaining resources? If executives at a company rented a bunch of store fronts expecting to increase their footprint and then said "we're bad at our jobs and didn't realize we weren't going to do anything with these store fronts" the investors would (presumably) ask them to leave or cut their performance bonuses. It's not like these companies don't have massive amounts of data (I'm looking at you Google) to analyze and estimate a market and determine if they needed the resources to begin with. Another thing I don't see mentioned often enough is the impact that this has on state governments. I can imagine that the people working in the California state government would be concerned if several large companies took a bunch of store fronts off the market and then just dumped them all in one fell swoop. Are these managers, executives, and presidents so bad at their job that they can't find anything to do with a bunch of talented employees that they spent time and money on-boarding?
safety1st 4y ago
I've considered it, and of all the possible takes, I think this is the worst one. It's simple: - They are chartered as a for-profit entity - FAANG workers who are making an average $200K or whatever don't need welfare. Like I'm all for class warfare, but not between the super rich and the very rich. I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for the $200K class when they get laid off - being worth this much money includes understanding how the game is played and preparing accordingly. So no, if you get laid off at this level, you are not working class, you are not an average American, the package MSFT gives you is above market and that is good enough. Let's save the extra help for people who actually need it.
- recycledfood 4y ago
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- lumb63 4y ago
  Well said. For me, complaints of layoffs in tech companies and startups fall on deaf ears. I say this as someone who works for a startup, and whose partner works for Google. It has been incredibly obvious that technology companies over-hired during the pandemic and that the growth they were seeing was not sustainable. The “we prepared for a different economic reality than the one we face today” is hogwash. Rather than preparing, they post-pared for the economic reality they were in, not the one that they could easily have seen coming. Rather than directing anger toward the managerial class for layoffs, I’d rather see anger directed toward them for over-hiring in the first place. Nobody is mad when they’re at the party, even when they know it can’t last forever, but everyone will is upset when the music stops. Also, FWIW regarding compensation, I agree. I recently saw on levels.fyi what a recruiter at Google makes - starting, with equity and bonus, is substantially more than me as a software engineer ~5 years out of college. I voiced my amazement to my girlfriend, and she told me, “well at least you still have a job”. Sorry, I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy. That recruiter could take the next four years off from working entirely, and we’d come out about the same in earnings. As tech workers, we are all out of touch with “everyday people”, but those working at FAANG companies are out of touch even with the rest of the tech ecosystem.
  - bart_spoon 4y ago
    > Rather than directing anger toward the managerial class for layoffs, I’d rather see anger directed toward them for over-hiring in the first place. Almost every criticism I see if the “managerial class” includes criticism for over hiring. That’s the point. Management making strategically unsustainable decisions is what resulted in over hiring. It’s a mistake by those in management, but the consequences, layoffs, are entirely born by those who had no hand in it.
    - safety1st 4y ago
      For better or for worse, over hiring is a deliberate practice at many companies. It's hard to know who is good and who is not from the interview process alone, so they over hire, and cut lower performers later through a layoff (though it is never communicated this way).

To that point - didn't these companies and their investors "invest" in a bunch of human resources and then devalue them by either laying them off or giving the work of laid-off workers to the remaining resources? If executives at a company rented a bunch of store fronts expecting to increase their footprint and then said "we're bad at our jobs and didn't realize we weren't going to do anything with these store fronts" the investors would (presumably) ask them to leave or cut their performance bonuses. It's not like these companies don't have massive amounts of data (I'm looking at you Google) to analyze and estimate a market and determine if they needed the resources to begin with. Another thing I don't see mentioned often enough is the impact that this has on state governments. I can imagine that the people working in the California state government would be concerned if several large companies took a bunch of store fronts off the market and then just dumped them all in one fell swoop. Are these managers, executives, and presidents so bad at their job that they can't find anything to do with a bunch of talented employees that they spent time and money on-boarding?

safety1st 4y ago

I've considered it, and of all the possible takes, I think this is the worst one. It's simple: - They are chartered as a for-profit entity - FAANG workers who are making an average $200K or whatever don't need welfare. Like I'm all for class warfare, but not between the super rich and the very rich. I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for the $200K class when they get laid off - being worth this much money includes understanding how the game is played and preparing accordingly. So no, if you get laid off at this level, you are not working class, you are not an average American, the package MSFT gives you is above market and that is good enough. Let's save the extra help for people who actually need it.

recycledfood 4y ago
[dead]
lumb63 4y ago
Well said. For me, complaints of layoffs in tech companies and startups fall on deaf ears. I say this as someone who works for a startup, and whose partner works for Google. It has been incredibly obvious that technology companies over-hired during the pandemic and that the growth they were seeing was not sustainable. The “we prepared for a different economic reality than the one we face today” is hogwash. Rather than preparing, they post-pared for the economic reality they were in, not the one that they could easily have seen coming. Rather than directing anger toward the managerial class for layoffs, I’d rather see anger directed toward them for over-hiring in the first place. Nobody is mad when they’re at the party, even when they know it can’t last forever, but everyone will is upset when the music stops. Also, FWIW regarding compensation, I agree. I recently saw on levels.fyi what a recruiter at Google makes - starting, with equity and bonus, is substantially more than me as a software engineer ~5 years out of college. I voiced my amazement to my girlfriend, and she told me, “well at least you still have a job”. Sorry, I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy. That recruiter could take the next four years off from working entirely, and we’d come out about the same in earnings. As tech workers, we are all out of touch with “everyday people”, but those working at FAANG companies are out of touch even with the rest of the tech ecosystem.
- bart_spoon 4y ago
  > Rather than directing anger toward the managerial class for layoffs, I’d rather see anger directed toward them for over-hiring in the first place. Almost every criticism I see if the “managerial class” includes criticism for over hiring. That’s the point. Management making strategically unsustainable decisions is what resulted in over hiring. It’s a mistake by those in management, but the consequences, layoffs, are entirely born by those who had no hand in it.
  - safety1st 4y ago
    For better or for worse, over hiring is a deliberate practice at many companies. It's hard to know who is good and who is not from the interview process alone, so they over hire, and cut lower performers later through a layoff (though it is never communicated this way).