3 ms·

There is no need for inline assembly. Modules written in assembler can be separate from C code. And if you consider "//" a language extension, then yes, everybo

by Rochus 4y ago

There is no need for inline assembly. Modules written in assembler can be separate from C code. And if you consider "//" a language extension, then yes, everybody and their dogs seem to use them, and nearly every compiler seems to support them.

pjmlp 4y ago
When I look at those embedded OSes, I see more than just what ISO C89 allows for, beyond //.
- Rochus 4y ago
  My argument is extended ad absurdum in this thread anyway. My point was that Lisa Pascal has made several significant language extensions compared to original Pascal, such as a module system, pointer handling like in C, compiler directives, etc. - all things Wirth himself later added to Modula-2; these were intended, significant and documented extensions under the name "Lisa Pascal", not just the usual errors, inaccuracies and "common deviations" that you find in every C compiler, and that force you to secure libraries with #ifdefs.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Many of those things were already present in ISO Extended Pascal and UCSD Pascal. > not just the usual errors, inaccuracies and "common deviations" that you find in every C compiler, and that force you to secure libraries with #ifdefs. And extension keywords for microcontrollers specific features, intrisics for CPU instructions, DSP specific capabilities,.... Yeah I am already used that what goes for Pascal gets another weigth when placed against C.
    - Rochus 4y ago
      Apple II and III Pascal (and in consequence Lisa Pascal, but there was e.g. not UNIT or USES syntax in USCD) were indeed based on USCD Pascal, but ISO 10206 was a decade later as far as I remember.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        There were other Pascals around with system programing extensions, quite a few were eventually standardized in ISO 10206 (1991). http://pascal.hansotten.com/ http://pascal.hansotten.com/ And while the discussions keep going around Pascal and its extensions, there is this little detail of Modula-2 being released in 1978, where all the issues with Pascal (as originally designed by Wirth) for systems programming were already fixed.
        Rochus 4y ago
        Yes, the first ETH Report about Modula-2 appeared in 1978, around the time Lisa Pascal was developed; the latter refers to the Jensen/Wirth 1975 Pascal edition. I don't know whether there were contacts between Apple and Wirth before Clascal. Not to forget that Tesler came from PARC where they had Mesa, so he had the same source as Wirth had.
        Rochus 4y ago
        Here I found an interesting Article by David Craig about where Lisa Pascal (and all the other Apple Pascal version) came from: https://www.applefritter.com/content/brief-history-apple-computer%E2%80%99s-work-pascal-language https://www.applefritter.com/content/brief-history-apple-com... Where Apple II and III Pascal was based on UCSD Pascal, Lisa Pascal was apparently directly based on Wirth's P4 compiler, not on UCSD Pascal. See page 4.
        musicale 4y ago
        Great reference! Terrific to have a semi-original source, thoug I wish it included more detail and references. > Therefore, Lisa Pascal lasted from 1981 to 1986, an eternity in the field of microcomputer languages. ;-) > Tho (sic) Pascal will have the support of a small but vocal minority at Apple, C/C++ will be the dominant language for Apple and outsiders for the next decade. RIP Pascal, you will not be forgotten - and you will live on as Delphi.

by Rochus 4y ago

pjmlp 4y ago

When I look at those embedded OSes, I see more than just what ISO C89 allows for, beyond //.

Rochus 4y ago
My argument is extended ad absurdum in this thread anyway. My point was that Lisa Pascal has made several significant language extensions compared to original Pascal, such as a module system, pointer handling like in C, compiler directives, etc. - all things Wirth himself later added to Modula-2; these were intended, significant and documented extensions under the name "Lisa Pascal", not just the usual errors, inaccuracies and "common deviations" that you find in every C compiler, and that force you to secure libraries with #ifdefs.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Many of those things were already present in ISO Extended Pascal and UCSD Pascal. > not just the usual errors, inaccuracies and "common deviations" that you find in every C compiler, and that force you to secure libraries with #ifdefs. And extension keywords for microcontrollers specific features, intrisics for CPU instructions, DSP specific capabilities,.... Yeah I am already used that what goes for Pascal gets another weigth when placed against C.
  - Rochus 4y ago
    Apple II and III Pascal (and in consequence Lisa Pascal, but there was e.g. not UNIT or USES syntax in USCD) were indeed based on USCD Pascal, but ISO 10206 was a decade later as far as I remember.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      There were other Pascals around with system programing extensions, quite a few were eventually standardized in ISO 10206 (1991). http://pascal.hansotten.com/ http://pascal.hansotten.com/ And while the discussions keep going around Pascal and its extensions, there is this little detail of Modula-2 being released in 1978, where all the issues with Pascal (as originally designed by Wirth) for systems programming were already fixed.
      - Rochus 4y ago
        Yes, the first ETH Report about Modula-2 appeared in 1978, around the time Lisa Pascal was developed; the latter refers to the Jensen/Wirth 1975 Pascal edition. I don't know whether there were contacts between Apple and Wirth before Clascal. Not to forget that Tesler came from PARC where they had Mesa, so he had the same source as Wirth had.
      - Rochus 4y ago
        Here I found an interesting Article by David Craig about where Lisa Pascal (and all the other Apple Pascal version) came from: https://www.applefritter.com/content/brief-history-apple-computer%E2%80%99s-work-pascal-language https://www.applefritter.com/content/brief-history-apple-com... Where Apple II and III Pascal was based on UCSD Pascal, Lisa Pascal was apparently directly based on Wirth's P4 compiler, not on UCSD Pascal. See page 4.
        musicale 4y ago
        Great reference! Terrific to have a semi-original source, thoug I wish it included more detail and references. > Therefore, Lisa Pascal lasted from 1981 to 1986, an eternity in the field of microcomputer languages. ;-) > Tho (sic) Pascal will have the support of a small but vocal minority at Apple, C/C++ will be the dominant language for Apple and outsiders for the next decade. RIP Pascal, you will not be forgotten - and you will live on as Delphi.