In the great tradition of arguing with people on the internet for no goddamn reason, I'm going to argue with you some more. > That needs some backing up, as I

In the great tradition of arguing with people on the internet for no goddamn reason, I'm going to argue with you some more. > That needs some backing up, as I highly doubt it's true for any definition of goodness. Come on man, be reasonable. Sure, I could come up with a definition that wouldn't fit, like "goodness == dinosaurs", but are we really going there? Let's pin it down to something we can probably both agree on: Goodness = That which is mostly of benefit to most animals. Now you can say I'm "animal-centric", but so what? I'm not into post-modernist nonsense, and we can argue on why I'm calling it nonsense too. > It isn't about pessimism or misanthropy, which are largely irrelevant to this discussion. Realizing one is a narcissist or an alcoholic or an addict isn't pessimism. It's realization and acceptance of both the reality of the situation and that something needs to change. We mostly agree; absolutely, acceptance of reality and the will (and action!) to change is what's important. What I don't agree on though, is shitting on humans and saying we don't do that because you can find some examples of _instances of human_ which don't do that. Zooming out to the bigger picture shows that we do. Even if you found only a single instance in the 8 billion instances, it would still mean humans have at least the capacity. > The rest of your post is unfortunately hopelessly human-centric. We have no basis or evidence of the feelings or thoughts of other animals. It's human centric in terms of it being from the perspective of a human, but not in terms of what I'm willing to look at. Even if we "have no basis or evidence of the feelings or thoughts of other animals" (which we do^), we _try_ to. Humans try to understand what impact they're having on other animals. Animals other than humans don't. ^ Google search for "animal feeling studies" https://www.google.com/search?q=animal%20feeling%20studies https://www.google.com/search?q=animal%20feeling%20studies