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Great to see commitment to older devices. I hope this becomes the norm in this space.

mdasen 4y ago
It might become the norm, but probably only via EU legislation. The EU is proposing 3 years of updates and 5 years of security updates. We'll see if it happens. Without legislation, it probably won't become the norm. With Apple, they know they will capture the value of future device purchases since if you want an iOS device, they're the only seller. Margins can be better since they're the only seller which leaves more money to support the product long term. Long-term support positions them as a premium product. One of the big issues is that Google can't patch an issue and then push it out to everyone. They need buy-in from phone manufacturers and even carriers who have customized Android. Apple doesn't need any coordination. They can update iOS when they want to and they control all the hardware it's running on. Yes, you'd think that competition might lead people to become loyal to one Android manufacturer if they provided longer-term support, but I think the ecosystem encourages shopping around for the best deal/promo rather than brand loyalty and money spent on long-term support makes products more expensive. I think part of it is even a different market segment between iOS and Android. I think a lot of iOS users are people that want something that just works that they don't have to worry about and are willing to pay for a premium product that does that. I think Android users are split between power users who want to upgrade frequently (negating the utility of long-term support) and low-end users who don't care or need to prioritize purchase price over updates/security. Again, needing 2-3 parties involved for updates makes them more expensive, more difficult, and less likely to happen. Part of it is simply the Apple experience. Apple Stores aren't cheap. Apple could use cheap materials and try to build stores that look and feel like most retail. That's not their game. They're looking to sell a premium experience and part of that includes long-term support. Of course, that comes with a price. It's easy to find $100 Android phones, but not $100 iPhones.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- torstenvl 4y ago
  The OP is about a security update for a 10-year-old phone. Mandating security updates for 5-year-old phones would have absolutely no effect.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    And Apple already does feature updates for about 6 years on the iPhone. The new laws really only affect android which gets on average 2 years updates.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      And it seems like those feature updates don't die for no reason. They phase out models with insufficient RAM or 32-bit CPUs.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        By “no reason” you mean that the newer chips literally don’t support 32 bit processors? And insufficient RAM is not a good reason not to support older phones?
        Gigachad 4y ago
        They support them for security updates like the OP link shows, but obviously at some point insufficient compute power is a good reason to not load new features on.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        Yes, that's what I said. They don't do it for planned obsolescence reasons or arbitrarily at N years old. They do it when specs require it.
- acdha 4y ago
  > Of course, that comes with a price. It's easy to find $100 Android phones, but not $100 iPhones. A $1,000 Android phone will likely be slower and supported for less time than a $400 iPhone, however. Most of the Android users I know spend the same or more on their phones, they just have to replace them more frequently. This means that the price comparison is usually the iPhone 1-2 generations back - for example, if you were considering a Samsung Galaxy S22 you could get a faster CPU with a $100 iPhone SE (2nd generation) rather than the current model.
  - karolist 4y ago
    A $350 Pixel 6a would be as fast for any tasks as any current iPhone and would feel faster due to really slow iOS animation and scroll speed. It would also have a better camera than any current iPhone according to mass consensus in MKBHD blind tests (it won the first place). After Apple stops supporting the iPhone, Pixel will chug along on GrapheneOS or similar.
    - justsomeadvice0 4y ago
      I am looking for such a phone so I looked into this. To make a comparison to the 6A: the Pixel 3A was released in May 2019. Just over 3 years later: it is no longer supported (no updates available) by Google in any way [1]. GrapheneOS lists it as "obsolete" [2]. 1. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#zippy=%2Cpixel-a-xl-earlier https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#z... 2. https://grapheneos.org/releases#bluejay-stable https://grapheneos.org/releases#bluejay-stable
      - karolist 4y ago
        That's a valid point, I have no idea why it's marked obsolete so soon, although latest build is from this month as well. I stand corrected though.
        justsomeadvice0 4y ago
        I did look a bit more and it does appear LineageOS could work as a long-term alternative OS. I'm a bit hesitant after reading about some of the difficulties imposed by missing google's Playstore and "Safetynet" (sounds like my banking app won't work) but will explore using this on the 6A.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > One of the big issues is that Google can't patch an issue and then push it out to everyone. They need buy-in from phone manufacturers and even carriers who have customized Android Yet and still Microsoft figured this out with computers from different manufacturers almost 30 years ago.
willis936 4y ago
I have an apple watch series 3 bought within the past two years. Using it prevents me from using E2EE icloud backups: a feature I badly want. No technical explanation is given as to why this is the case and I fail to think of one. What does come to mind is: new feature is a carrot to buy new devices.
- westhom 4y ago
  I have the same watch, same issue. Just discovered it tonight while trying to enable E2EE. Presumably it’s because the 3 doesn’t receive watchOS updates anymore as a discontinued product, so it can’t participate in the new E2EE “pipeline”
- scarface74 4y ago
  The Series 3 is 5 years old and was already struggling with upgrades. E2EE requires all devices to be updated to the latest version of the OS
- saagarjha 4y ago
  I don’t want to blame you for a situation that Apple intentionally made confusing, but there is no reason you should have bought that device in the last four or so years. It was pretty clearly on the road to being obsolete sooner than later, and unsurprisingly it lost support pretty much the day Apple stopped selling it.
  - willis936 4y ago
    That's contrary to this sentiment and how Apple has handled support of other devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34514043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34514043
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      I know, which is why it's particularly egregious.

It might become the norm, but probably only via EU legislation. The EU is proposing 3 years of updates and 5 years of security updates. We'll see if it happens. Without legislation, it probably won't become the norm. With Apple, they know they will capture the value of future device purchases since if you want an iOS device, they're the only seller. Margins can be better since they're the only seller which leaves more money to support the product long term. Long-term support positions them as a premium product. One of the big issues is that Google can't patch an issue and then push it out to everyone. They need buy-in from phone manufacturers and even carriers who have customized Android. Apple doesn't need any coordination. They can update iOS when they want to and they control all the hardware it's running on. Yes, you'd think that competition might lead people to become loyal to one Android manufacturer if they provided longer-term support, but I think the ecosystem encourages shopping around for the best deal/promo rather than brand loyalty and money spent on long-term support makes products more expensive. I think part of it is even a different market segment between iOS and Android. I think a lot of iOS users are people that want something that just works that they don't have to worry about and are willing to pay for a premium product that does that. I think Android users are split between power users who want to upgrade frequently (negating the utility of long-term support) and low-end users who don't care or need to prioritize purchase price over updates/security. Again, needing 2-3 parties involved for updates makes them more expensive, more difficult, and less likely to happen. Part of it is simply the Apple experience. Apple Stores aren't cheap. Apple could use cheap materials and try to build stores that look and feel like most retail. That's not their game. They're looking to sell a premium experience and part of that includes long-term support. Of course, that comes with a price. It's easy to find $100 Android phones, but not $100 iPhones.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
torstenvl 4y ago
The OP is about a security update for a 10-year-old phone. Mandating security updates for 5-year-old phones would have absolutely no effect.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  And Apple already does feature updates for about 6 years on the iPhone. The new laws really only affect android which gets on average 2 years updates.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    And it seems like those feature updates don't die for no reason. They phase out models with insufficient RAM or 32-bit CPUs.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      By “no reason” you mean that the newer chips literally don’t support 32 bit processors? And insufficient RAM is not a good reason not to support older phones?
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        They support them for security updates like the OP link shows, but obviously at some point insufficient compute power is a good reason to not load new features on.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        Yes, that's what I said. They don't do it for planned obsolescence reasons or arbitrarily at N years old. They do it when specs require it.
acdha 4y ago
> Of course, that comes with a price. It's easy to find $100 Android phones, but not $100 iPhones. A $1,000 Android phone will likely be slower and supported for less time than a $400 iPhone, however. Most of the Android users I know spend the same or more on their phones, they just have to replace them more frequently. This means that the price comparison is usually the iPhone 1-2 generations back - for example, if you were considering a Samsung Galaxy S22 you could get a faster CPU with a $100 iPhone SE (2nd generation) rather than the current model.
- karolist 4y ago
  A $350 Pixel 6a would be as fast for any tasks as any current iPhone and would feel faster due to really slow iOS animation and scroll speed. It would also have a better camera than any current iPhone according to mass consensus in MKBHD blind tests (it won the first place). After Apple stops supporting the iPhone, Pixel will chug along on GrapheneOS or similar.
  - justsomeadvice0 4y ago
    I am looking for such a phone so I looked into this. To make a comparison to the 6A: the Pixel 3A was released in May 2019. Just over 3 years later: it is no longer supported (no updates available) by Google in any way [1]. GrapheneOS lists it as "obsolete" [2]. 1. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#zippy=%2Cpixel-a-xl-earlier https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#z... 2. https://grapheneos.org/releases#bluejay-stable https://grapheneos.org/releases#bluejay-stable
    - karolist 4y ago
      That's a valid point, I have no idea why it's marked obsolete so soon, although latest build is from this month as well. I stand corrected though.
      - justsomeadvice0 4y ago
        I did look a bit more and it does appear LineageOS could work as a long-term alternative OS. I'm a bit hesitant after reading about some of the difficulties imposed by missing google's Playstore and "Safetynet" (sounds like my banking app won't work) but will explore using this on the 6A.
scarface74 4y ago
> One of the big issues is that Google can't patch an issue and then push it out to everyone. They need buy-in from phone manufacturers and even carriers who have customized Android Yet and still Microsoft figured this out with computers from different manufacturers almost 30 years ago.

willis936 4y ago

I have an apple watch series 3 bought within the past two years. Using it prevents me from using E2EE icloud backups: a feature I badly want. No technical explanation is given as to why this is the case and I fail to think of one. What does come to mind is: new feature is a carrot to buy new devices.

westhom 4y ago
I have the same watch, same issue. Just discovered it tonight while trying to enable E2EE. Presumably it’s because the 3 doesn’t receive watchOS updates anymore as a discontinued product, so it can’t participate in the new E2EE “pipeline”
scarface74 4y ago
The Series 3 is 5 years old and was already struggling with upgrades. E2EE requires all devices to be updated to the latest version of the OS
saagarjha 4y ago
I don’t want to blame you for a situation that Apple intentionally made confusing, but there is no reason you should have bought that device in the last four or so years. It was pretty clearly on the road to being obsolete sooner than later, and unsurprisingly it lost support pretty much the day Apple stopped selling it.
- willis936 4y ago
  That's contrary to this sentiment and how Apple has handled support of other devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34514043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34514043
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    I know, which is why it's particularly egregious.