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> Sometime leading up to October of 2022, the folks at the Signal foundation lost the plot. Signal has since dropped support for SMS, and is inexplicably adding

> Sometime leading up to October of 2022, the folks at the Signal foundation lost the plot. Signal has since dropped support for SMS, and is inexplicably adding "stories" to their personal messaging app. I despise this. On iPhone Signal never support SMS in the first place. Just sounds like they're smartly keeping it consistent that all messages are secure rather than intermixing non-secure and secure messaging, which was a dumb idea from the get go.

chungy 4y ago
Couldn't disagree more. Having a singular app handle all messaging was brilliant and a key feature to bring people over. Apple disallowing competition isn't a good reason to remove something useful for Android users.
- growse 4y ago
  > Couldn't disagree more. Having a singular app handle all messaging was brilliant and a key feature to bring people over. > Apple disallowing competition isn't a good reason to remove something useful for Android users. Nice in theory, but RCS breaks everything here. You send someone at SMS in Signal, they reply but their client "upgrades" it to RCS. Signal never receives the reply (because the RCS android API is private), and now everyone blames Signal for "dropping messages".
- mlindner 4y ago
  But why does putting all your messaging in a single app help bring people over? People have always juggled multiple messaging clients since forever ago. I personally use 4 different ones at the moment (Signal, Messages(SMS+iMessage), LINE, and Snapchat) and lots of other people I know also use WhatsApp, Messenger, or one of the various Chinese messaging apps. I don't think I know anyone who uses just a single messaging app.
monetus 4y ago
"dumb idea from the get go." You could potentially send an unencrypted msg if you fat fingered the send button into a long press, a swipe, and then another tap. Otherwise, people messaging you would just find themselves silently upgraded to encrypted messenging, because it was the default already on both phones. It was a boon for security overall, but allowed a.. Not a pitfall so much as a pit climb that could be a security let down. The silent upgrade of everyday messages broadened signal from that platform people use to talk about black market stuff to that platform people use to text.
- omeid2 4y ago
  Silent upgrade and so silent downgrade instead of fail to send? Risky.
  - rcthompson 4y ago
    It's not silent, the UI clearly indicated when you were sending messages encrypted or unencrypted.
- jamal-kumar 4y ago
  I guess politicians and their staffers are just doing black market dealings if your reductionistic point of view holds out to be true [1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/02/24/new-whatsapp-security-blow-as-political-staffers-are-pushed-to-signal-heres-why-that-matters/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/02/24/new-whats...
  - monetus 4y ago
    Hyperbole is useful for illustrating a point, please take people in good faith. The point was that the signal users are being fragmented, divided amongst those who do and don't mind inconvenience to hide their messaging. At the time they are pushing the social media features like stories, groups, and payments, it doesn't make sense to tamp down on android's network effect. Politicians don't have to worry about their staffers uninstalling the app but forgetting to tell the campaign.
- mlindner 4y ago
  That doesn't sound like a silent upgrade but instead a silent downgrade to cleartext, a big security no-no that should never be performed.
wolverine876 4y ago
I agree. It was risky for users, who associate Signal with 'secure'.
fluidcruft 4y ago
The real problem is that Google and carriers are moving Android to RCS+SMS. SMS is awaiting execution.
- simfree 4y ago
  Good luck killing SMS when the RCS APIs are for Google Messages (and rebranded Android OEM messages apps) only. The few paid RCS messaging APIs that exist are priced like caviar compared to SMS.
  - fluidcruft 4y ago
    Yeah. The reality is that RCS is happening and leaves Signal in the same position they are on iOS where SMS is only supported/allowed via Apple's app and they can't touch. SMS-only users will be left in the cold. It used to be that if you use SMS you were a pariah on iOS with low quality MMS etc. Pretty soon SMS users will be a pariah on both iOS and Android. Not to mention how things change if/when the EU forces Apple to support RCS. Furthermore RCS is adding encryption. So Signal users who communicate via SMS are missing out on that possibility to improve their use of encrypted communication with users who don't use Signal. The narrative of the Signal+SMS silent upgrade is also falling apart. As RCS support continues to roll out, you are actively downgrading a user's experience if you install Signal as their SMS client. Frankly I don't see these facts support SMS in Signal being worth any developer effort. And if literally anything in the SMS stack results is a security breach of a Signal user, Signal gets all the egg on their face. It just does not make sense for SMS to exist in Signal.
- petodo 4y ago
  Right, just like MMS killed SMS. Good luck trying to kill simple plain text message with shaky Google RCS support, which ain't some international open standard.

chungy 4y ago

Couldn't disagree more. Having a singular app handle all messaging was brilliant and a key feature to bring people over. Apple disallowing competition isn't a good reason to remove something useful for Android users.

growse 4y ago
> Couldn't disagree more. Having a singular app handle all messaging was brilliant and a key feature to bring people over. > Apple disallowing competition isn't a good reason to remove something useful for Android users. Nice in theory, but RCS breaks everything here. You send someone at SMS in Signal, they reply but their client "upgrades" it to RCS. Signal never receives the reply (because the RCS android API is private), and now everyone blames Signal for "dropping messages".
mlindner 4y ago
But why does putting all your messaging in a single app help bring people over? People have always juggled multiple messaging clients since forever ago. I personally use 4 different ones at the moment (Signal, Messages(SMS+iMessage), LINE, and Snapchat) and lots of other people I know also use WhatsApp, Messenger, or one of the various Chinese messaging apps. I don't think I know anyone who uses just a single messaging app.

monetus 4y ago

"dumb idea from the get go." You could potentially send an unencrypted msg if you fat fingered the send button into a long press, a swipe, and then another tap. Otherwise, people messaging you would just find themselves silently upgraded to encrypted messenging, because it was the default already on both phones. It was a boon for security overall, but allowed a.. Not a pitfall so much as a pit climb that could be a security let down. The silent upgrade of everyday messages broadened signal from that platform people use to talk about black market stuff to that platform people use to text.

omeid2 4y ago
Silent upgrade and so silent downgrade instead of fail to send? Risky.
- rcthompson 4y ago
  It's not silent, the UI clearly indicated when you were sending messages encrypted or unencrypted.
jamal-kumar 4y ago
I guess politicians and their staffers are just doing black market dealings if your reductionistic point of view holds out to be true [1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/02/24/new-whatsapp-security-blow-as-political-staffers-are-pushed-to-signal-heres-why-that-matters/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/02/24/new-whats...
- monetus 4y ago
  Hyperbole is useful for illustrating a point, please take people in good faith. The point was that the signal users are being fragmented, divided amongst those who do and don't mind inconvenience to hide their messaging. At the time they are pushing the social media features like stories, groups, and payments, it doesn't make sense to tamp down on android's network effect. Politicians don't have to worry about their staffers uninstalling the app but forgetting to tell the campaign.
mlindner 4y ago
That doesn't sound like a silent upgrade but instead a silent downgrade to cleartext, a big security no-no that should never be performed.

wolverine876 4y ago

I agree. It was risky for users, who associate Signal with 'secure'.

fluidcruft 4y ago

The real problem is that Google and carriers are moving Android to RCS+SMS. SMS is awaiting execution.

simfree 4y ago
Good luck killing SMS when the RCS APIs are for Google Messages (and rebranded Android OEM messages apps) only. The few paid RCS messaging APIs that exist are priced like caviar compared to SMS.
- fluidcruft 4y ago
  Yeah. The reality is that RCS is happening and leaves Signal in the same position they are on iOS where SMS is only supported/allowed via Apple's app and they can't touch. SMS-only users will be left in the cold. It used to be that if you use SMS you were a pariah on iOS with low quality MMS etc. Pretty soon SMS users will be a pariah on both iOS and Android. Not to mention how things change if/when the EU forces Apple to support RCS. Furthermore RCS is adding encryption. So Signal users who communicate via SMS are missing out on that possibility to improve their use of encrypted communication with users who don't use Signal. The narrative of the Signal+SMS silent upgrade is also falling apart. As RCS support continues to roll out, you are actively downgrading a user's experience if you install Signal as their SMS client. Frankly I don't see these facts support SMS in Signal being worth any developer effort. And if literally anything in the SMS stack results is a security breach of a Signal user, Signal gets all the egg on their face. It just does not make sense for SMS to exist in Signal.
petodo 4y ago
Right, just like MMS killed SMS. Good luck trying to kill simple plain text message with shaky Google RCS support, which ain't some international open standard.