5 ms·

The same happens with my ISP. I just call customer service and tell them I want to cancel. They offer me a significantly better price for a year, I take the ne

The same happens with my ISP. I just call customer service and tell them I want to cancel. They offer me a significantly better price for a year, I take the new price and after the year it goes up again and I call to cancel again.

myself248 4y ago
Yup, once a year like clockwork. Call the ISP, play a game of brinksmanship to avoid being taken to the cleaners. Meanwhile my conflict-averse friend is paying $94/mo for less bandwidth than I get for $25. It's psychological discrimination, is what it is.
- voakbasda 4y ago
  I am extremely envious, as my local/rural ISP has a monopoly in the area. I am paying $100/month for a 20Mbit DSL line, because there is no competitive pressure to upgrade.
  - kjksf 4y ago
    Starlink?
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      Too many trees that I can't just cut down. I tried them out when they first launched, and it wants a view of the North sky. If I could point it to the South (or even straight up), I would give it another try. However, I am no longer convinced that it would be worth the cost to upgrade. Too many people have reported overall degraded service in the face of rising subscriptions. Moreover, my DSL service includes static IPs, so I can't simply switch over.
      - yencabulator 4y ago
        I'd even argue if you can get 20 Mbps DSL that you're happy with, you're probably not in the target audience for Starlink. I'm on Starlink and the alternative is more like a 2 Mbps DSL...
- py1 4y ago
  Your conflict-averse friend might want to check out Trim. They negotiate lower bills and split the savings with you (can't say I've used it myself). https://www.asktrim.com/ https://www.asktrim.com/
  - autoexec 4y ago
    I'd hold off until AI can do that job for us at no charge. Based on their privacy policy it looks like Trim takes a lot more than just a cut of the savings. They collect a shit ton of very personal data. They sell your personal data to advertisers, their "partners", and other "businesses and third-party websites". They keep your private data for as long as is "permitted under an applicable law". They promise to spam you with third party offers and to promote their own services and while you use their service they subject you to ads and let their "advertising partners" collect your data. "Our advertising partners may also transmit cookies to your browser or device when you click on ads that appear on the Services...use tracking technologies with the Services. This may include the collection of information about your online activities" If you go anywhere near that service read their privacy policy very very closely and make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  There is no right for the timid to receive as much as the bold. Your friend also does equally poorly in salary negotiation. $25 doesn't keep the lights on and there are far more of your friend than there are of you ergo you ought to be careful for what you wish for because fair pricing looks a lot more like you and your friend both paying $94.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    Fair pricing would result in reduced profits for the ISP otherwise they wouldn't do it. Therefore consumers would benefit on net from fair pricing. Certainly some hard negotiators do benefit from discriminatory pricing, but their gains are less than the losses incurred by those who aren't.
    - TuringNYC 4y ago
      >> Fair pricing would result in reduced profits for the ISP otherwise they wouldn't do it. Possibly, if you think short term. Perhaps not if you think long term. Here are things we would consider purchasing if we could get a real price w/o first signing a 2yr contract - SIM chip/plan for apple watch (x2 for me + wife) - SIM chip/plan for iPad (x2 for me + wife) - SIM for Child 1 in case of emergencies - SIM for Child 2 in case of emergencies But I have no clue if the cost of the above would be $100/mo or $300/mo, really there is no transparent pricing that I can see. Would have been great to just bundle all these into my single Verizon bill but i'm so afraid to even touch the plan.
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      Define fair? Internet is inherently both front loaded in terms of the substantial investment to build the network and fairly divorced from cost to maintain a given customers link. What's the fair price for access? The cost of access is negligible but the investment to build and maintain the network is not and without profits achieved now the network it would never have been built in the first place.
  - idiotsecant 4y ago
    Easy there, Ayn Rand. We can have sane pricing practices that don't require carny-level negotiation of each individual service every 6 months.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  This didn't work last time I called Comcast. I told them I wasn't happy that my Internet bill went up again by $15 and that if they can't reduce it back to what it was, I wanted them to cancel it. They placed me on hold while I sat there grinning about my awesome negotiation skills. Expected to get sent on to customer retention where I could get a better deal. Then the rep came back on and said "As requested, your internet service is terminated as of (next business day). Is there anything else I can help you with?"
  - selectodude 4y ago
    I’ll never forget when I did that with Verizon and they said “we invite you to try out the competition”. Bastards. They were right though. They’ll get ~$80/mo from me for the rest of my life.
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      This is an interesting challenge. The first problem is for many consumers there aren't able to access more than one actual high speed provider. This drastically reduces your position in any pricing negotiation. If someone were smart they could personalize their offer based on whether your personal house had options although I'm not aware of anyone actually going to that length yet. The next challenge is that even in the face of competition simple economics can break down in the face of uncoordinated cooperation even without collusion . It may be superior for major providers to collectively increase the price even without literal coordination simply by a small number of providers acting legitimately on shared interests. In theory someone with more than one option could ping pong between providers during sales that offer free installation but this is for obvious reasons undesirable insofar as internet is a vital service and switching can incur unacceptable costs and the more people actually do this the bigger the incentive to find a way to resolve this. For instance limiting such promotions to those who haven't had them before. As a buyer I want this to resolve down to a simpler pricing model like T-Mobile even if its not as advantageous as initial pricing offered because I would like a predictable and sane price and for providers to compete on price/value but its likely that the current opaque and complicated pricing model will continue because its more advantageous for it to be complicated. The biggest threat to this model is probably municipal broadband.
II2II 4y ago
The Canadian government compels the major telecommunications providers to lease their services to independent ISPs. Getting internet service installed with an independent ISP literally involves a visit from the major telecommunications provider and the service is pretty much equivalent to what the major telecommunications provider offers. The difference is price. Few of the independent ISPs try to attract customers with special offers since their rates are typically lower than their provider's consumer internet rates to start with, even when you consider the major provider's special rates. The company I'm with was almost apologetic when they raised their rates, twice over the past decade, even though their increases were lower than inflation and the major ISPs were increasing their rates nearly every year. They don't play games with customer retention. If you want to cancel, they cancel. If you don't really want to cancel, well, you won't get a special rate. While a part of the independent ISP's advantage is due to the rates they pay being regulated, I get the impression that they also keep their costs down by not playing games. It also keeps my costs down since I don't fall prey to their games. It also reduces the stress in my life since I really don't like playing exploitive games. Choice is good. EDIT: clarification.
- kneebonian 4y ago
  I've heard that the only thing worse for our friends to the north than their cell carriers is their ISPs. Is this the case? Do you mind sharing your speeds and cost?
  - II2II 4y ago
    $58 CAD for a 100/10 Mb/s, which is fine for my use. The cheapest advertised plan from the company actually providing the service is $116 for a 350/10, which is $11 more expensive than a 1000/15 from the company I go through. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but internet service had caps in most parts of Canada a while back. Around here, it is unlimited from all of the ISPs. It is also worth noting that a lot of the complaints come from rural customers. Living in the city, I have very few issues. (For example, the download speeds are over the advertised rate. It is supposed to be uncommon to get the advertised rates in rural and even suburban areas.)
- 4y ago

myself248 4y ago

Yup, once a year like clockwork. Call the ISP, play a game of brinksmanship to avoid being taken to the cleaners. Meanwhile my conflict-averse friend is paying $94/mo for less bandwidth than I get for $25. It's psychological discrimination, is what it is.

voakbasda 4y ago
I am extremely envious, as my local/rural ISP has a monopoly in the area. I am paying $100/month for a 20Mbit DSL line, because there is no competitive pressure to upgrade.
- kjksf 4y ago
  Starlink?
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    Too many trees that I can't just cut down. I tried them out when they first launched, and it wants a view of the North sky. If I could point it to the South (or even straight up), I would give it another try. However, I am no longer convinced that it would be worth the cost to upgrade. Too many people have reported overall degraded service in the face of rising subscriptions. Moreover, my DSL service includes static IPs, so I can't simply switch over.
    - yencabulator 4y ago
      I'd even argue if you can get 20 Mbps DSL that you're happy with, you're probably not in the target audience for Starlink. I'm on Starlink and the alternative is more like a 2 Mbps DSL...
py1 4y ago
Your conflict-averse friend might want to check out Trim. They negotiate lower bills and split the savings with you (can't say I've used it myself). https://www.asktrim.com/ https://www.asktrim.com/
- autoexec 4y ago
  I'd hold off until AI can do that job for us at no charge. Based on their privacy policy it looks like Trim takes a lot more than just a cut of the savings. They collect a shit ton of very personal data. They sell your personal data to advertisers, their "partners", and other "businesses and third-party websites". They keep your private data for as long as is "permitted under an applicable law". They promise to spam you with third party offers and to promote their own services and while you use their service they subject you to ads and let their "advertising partners" collect your data. "Our advertising partners may also transmit cookies to your browser or device when you click on ads that appear on the Services...use tracking technologies with the Services. This may include the collection of information about your online activities" If you go anywhere near that service read their privacy policy very very closely and make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.
michaelmrose 4y ago
There is no right for the timid to receive as much as the bold. Your friend also does equally poorly in salary negotiation. $25 doesn't keep the lights on and there are far more of your friend than there are of you ergo you ought to be careful for what you wish for because fair pricing looks a lot more like you and your friend both paying $94.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  Fair pricing would result in reduced profits for the ISP otherwise they wouldn't do it. Therefore consumers would benefit on net from fair pricing. Certainly some hard negotiators do benefit from discriminatory pricing, but their gains are less than the losses incurred by those who aren't.
  - TuringNYC 4y ago
    >> Fair pricing would result in reduced profits for the ISP otherwise they wouldn't do it. Possibly, if you think short term. Perhaps not if you think long term. Here are things we would consider purchasing if we could get a real price w/o first signing a 2yr contract - SIM chip/plan for apple watch (x2 for me + wife) - SIM chip/plan for iPad (x2 for me + wife) - SIM for Child 1 in case of emergencies - SIM for Child 2 in case of emergencies But I have no clue if the cost of the above would be $100/mo or $300/mo, really there is no transparent pricing that I can see. Would have been great to just bundle all these into my single Verizon bill but i'm so afraid to even touch the plan.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    Define fair? Internet is inherently both front loaded in terms of the substantial investment to build the network and fairly divorced from cost to maintain a given customers link. What's the fair price for access? The cost of access is negligible but the investment to build and maintain the network is not and without profits achieved now the network it would never have been built in the first place.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  Easy there, Ayn Rand. We can have sane pricing practices that don't require carny-level negotiation of each individual service every 6 months.
ryandrake 4y ago
This didn't work last time I called Comcast. I told them I wasn't happy that my Internet bill went up again by $15 and that if they can't reduce it back to what it was, I wanted them to cancel it. They placed me on hold while I sat there grinning about my awesome negotiation skills. Expected to get sent on to customer retention where I could get a better deal. Then the rep came back on and said "As requested, your internet service is terminated as of (next business day). Is there anything else I can help you with?"
- selectodude 4y ago
  I’ll never forget when I did that with Verizon and they said “we invite you to try out the competition”. Bastards. They were right though. They’ll get ~$80/mo from me for the rest of my life.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    This is an interesting challenge. The first problem is for many consumers there aren't able to access more than one actual high speed provider. This drastically reduces your position in any pricing negotiation. If someone were smart they could personalize their offer based on whether your personal house had options although I'm not aware of anyone actually going to that length yet. The next challenge is that even in the face of competition simple economics can break down in the face of uncoordinated cooperation even without collusion . It may be superior for major providers to collectively increase the price even without literal coordination simply by a small number of providers acting legitimately on shared interests. In theory someone with more than one option could ping pong between providers during sales that offer free installation but this is for obvious reasons undesirable insofar as internet is a vital service and switching can incur unacceptable costs and the more people actually do this the bigger the incentive to find a way to resolve this. For instance limiting such promotions to those who haven't had them before. As a buyer I want this to resolve down to a simpler pricing model like T-Mobile even if its not as advantageous as initial pricing offered because I would like a predictable and sane price and for providers to compete on price/value but its likely that the current opaque and complicated pricing model will continue because its more advantageous for it to be complicated. The biggest threat to this model is probably municipal broadband.

II2II 4y ago

The Canadian government compels the major telecommunications providers to lease their services to independent ISPs. Getting internet service installed with an independent ISP literally involves a visit from the major telecommunications provider and the service is pretty much equivalent to what the major telecommunications provider offers. The difference is price. Few of the independent ISPs try to attract customers with special offers since their rates are typically lower than their provider's consumer internet rates to start with, even when you consider the major provider's special rates. The company I'm with was almost apologetic when they raised their rates, twice over the past decade, even though their increases were lower than inflation and the major ISPs were increasing their rates nearly every year. They don't play games with customer retention. If you want to cancel, they cancel. If you don't really want to cancel, well, you won't get a special rate. While a part of the independent ISP's advantage is due to the rates they pay being regulated, I get the impression that they also keep their costs down by not playing games. It also keeps my costs down since I don't fall prey to their games. It also reduces the stress in my life since I really don't like playing exploitive games. Choice is good. EDIT: clarification.

kneebonian 4y ago
I've heard that the only thing worse for our friends to the north than their cell carriers is their ISPs. Is this the case? Do you mind sharing your speeds and cost?
- II2II 4y ago
  $58 CAD for a 100/10 Mb/s, which is fine for my use. The cheapest advertised plan from the company actually providing the service is $116 for a 350/10, which is $11 more expensive than a 1000/15 from the company I go through. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but internet service had caps in most parts of Canada a while back. Around here, it is unlimited from all of the ISPs. It is also worth noting that a lot of the complaints come from rural customers. Living in the city, I have very few issues. (For example, the download speeds are over the advertised rate. It is supposed to be uncommon to get the advertised rates in rural and even suburban areas.)
4y ago