4 ms·

It would be nice to have bundle reform that requires all prices to be listed as taxes-and-fees-inclusive here in the US. Ok, it’s not going to happen federally,

by dqv 4y ago

It would be nice to have bundle reform that requires all prices to be listed as taxes-and-fees-inclusive here in the US. Ok, it’s not going to happen federally, but I’d at least like it where I live. Changing prices is already regular maintenance, so the idea that this would place a burden on businesses is BS. If they have metadata at the cash register to know how to tax different items, they can have it at the label printer too. And for ecommerce, it’s even easier. As to the wellness fee, I would be way more receptive to the 20% increase being included in the menu prices with a note about what that 20% does.

phpisthebest 4y ago
>>It would be nice to have bundle reform that requires all prices to be listed as taxes-and-fees-inclusive here in the US No no no no Taxes should be listed for atleast 3 reasons 1. The company is not paying the tax, you are. You owe the tax not the company, the company is merely collecting the tax for the government. In many states the company is paid to collect this tax on the governments behalf. If the tax was not collected at time of purchase you still owe the government the money 2. Hiding taxation is never a good thing, Taxes we pay should be transparent to everyone as they are extractions from the economy and we should be fully aware of the amount of money the government is stealing errr extracting from us at all times 3. Tax increases are blamed on the merchant if they are hidden in the price instead of on the government where they belong, this makes is politically easier to raise the sales taxes if it is all hidden from the consumer. If a state goes from 8 to 10% people will notice that tax went up instead of the price. This is one of the reasons why of you look historically gas taxes have increased far more than the sales tax rate, because gas taxes are hidden into the price of gas where sales taxes are not.
- hyperman1 4y ago
  Here in Belgium (and most of Europe), we basically do both. Each line on a bill has 3 numbers: the untaxed price, the tax or tax rate, the taxed price. There are also 3 totals.
- eadler 4y ago
  I like how the UK does it. Total final price is the one on the sticker but tax is listed on the receipt. Something like Sticker : $100 Receipt Price: $92 Tax: $8 Total: $100
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  So make 'em include the tax amount and percentage in big print on the receipt or alongside the price on the price tag at some percentage the size & weight of the price itself. Both problems solved. Paying a different price at checkout than what was on the tag is dumb and provides cover for exactly this kind of fiddling-with-the-price crap.
- hansvm 4y ago
  Hypothetically, what do you think about requiring a big, up-front total and a high-level cost breakdown (section numbers for tax codes, overall material cost, amortized facilities cost)? To some of your points: 1. Isn't super important because on the <<1% of sales that could happen that way they're required to inform you of your tax burden. 2. Break it out as a line item. Bold it. Maybe a bit more transparency would help with the pattern of stores raking in record profits when any upstream supplier has a minor price hiccup. 3. Having to memorize the tax rates in every city for every class of goods and apply those accurately on the fly doesn't benefit anyone unless it finally pisses off enough people to turn our mess of a system into something simpler. Displaying the actual tax rate on the receipt should more than suffice. The thing that worries me about the pattern of tacking on crap after a total had already been agreed to is that it conditions is to accept that as just something that happens once in awhile. Like how SF restaurants started tacking on a fixed percentage to cover employee health benefits when that law passed. You'd sit down to a meal, choose what you're going to eat at least partially based on the price and expected tip, and find out after the meal that they expect you to pay some amount greater than what was listed and societally accepted at the time -- and critically, on average it's a much greater fee than is actually required to pay the offending tax. That particular instance has gotten a little better since at least they usually have small-print signs informing you of that fact now, but it repeats itself in car dealerships making up line items passing on ordinary costs of doing business to consumers as if they were collecting ordinary sales tax, in toll companies separating out an additional fee for the envelope they're using to send you your bill, ....
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I dont think simply putting on the reciept is a solution to #3, because people internalize pricing and make the choice to buy before the transaction. it would only work if the before Tax and After Tax price was displayed before purchase. Anything less is still hiding the taxation IMO Also I am intrigued by the people that say they are "Having to memorize the tax rates in every city" and "apply those accurately on the fly" I am not sure I have ever in my life needed to that? Why would you need to calculate that on the fly? Unless you are buying a big ticket item costing thousands of dollars then the tax should not be a factor on if you are going to buy X or not so what purpose would it have to calculate it in your head like that?
- rockinghigh 4y ago
  You can include the tax in the final price and show the breakdown. That's how it works in the rest of the world.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  In many cases, especially for flashy new restaurants in my state, the TIF fee exceeds other "taxes". Since these are solely for the benefit of the real estate developer and its tenants (including the restaurant), I would prefer that these were never split off from prices because that's misleading.
- ketralnis 4y ago
  But the rest of the world does include the tax in the advertised price and they do just fine
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Do they? The rest of the world has all kinds of Insane tax rates. I think the US Taxation is absurdly high and I pay in total about 25% to the government, many parts of the work 40-60% is common (when you factor all taxation), and that to me is out right theft.
    - jen20 4y ago
      Yes, they do. In most of the civilized world this practice is mandatory and everyone is better off for it.
- pas 4y ago
  If the company is collecting the tax they owe it after the sale. Yes it's a tax on consumption/commerce. There's no point saying it's paid by the buyer as there's no transaction without the seller either, and if there were no tax the seller were able to raise prices. (And likely the new market equilibrium would be somewhere between the two extremes, so it means both parties pay it actually.) And as others mentioned in many places the law says the receipt has to show the applied tax, so it's absolutely not hidden.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I dont think simply putting on the receipt is a solution, because people internalize pricing and make the choice to buy before the transaction. it would only work if the before Tax and After Tax price was displayed before purchase. I would be agreed if they displayed/advertised both. but Only displaying / advertising the final post tax price and then itemizing it on the receipt does not change the psychology of the issue where by people will internalize the final price and not fully understand the tax component. In the same way people are complaining about not being able to understand the final price if it not displayed

by dqv 4y ago

phpisthebest 4y ago

>>It would be nice to have bundle reform that requires all prices to be listed as taxes-and-fees-inclusive here in the US No no no no Taxes should be listed for atleast 3 reasons 1. The company is not paying the tax, you are. You owe the tax not the company, the company is merely collecting the tax for the government. In many states the company is paid to collect this tax on the governments behalf. If the tax was not collected at time of purchase you still owe the government the money 2. Hiding taxation is never a good thing, Taxes we pay should be transparent to everyone as they are extractions from the economy and we should be fully aware of the amount of money the government is stealing errr extracting from us at all times 3. Tax increases are blamed on the merchant if they are hidden in the price instead of on the government where they belong, this makes is politically easier to raise the sales taxes if it is all hidden from the consumer. If a state goes from 8 to 10% people will notice that tax went up instead of the price. This is one of the reasons why of you look historically gas taxes have increased far more than the sales tax rate, because gas taxes are hidden into the price of gas where sales taxes are not.

hyperman1 4y ago
Here in Belgium (and most of Europe), we basically do both. Each line on a bill has 3 numbers: the untaxed price, the tax or tax rate, the taxed price. There are also 3 totals.
eadler 4y ago
I like how the UK does it. Total final price is the one on the sticker but tax is listed on the receipt. Something like Sticker : $100 Receipt Price: $92 Tax: $8 Total: $100
yamtaddle 4y ago
So make 'em include the tax amount and percentage in big print on the receipt or alongside the price on the price tag at some percentage the size & weight of the price itself. Both problems solved. Paying a different price at checkout than what was on the tag is dumb and provides cover for exactly this kind of fiddling-with-the-price crap.
hansvm 4y ago
Hypothetically, what do you think about requiring a big, up-front total and a high-level cost breakdown (section numbers for tax codes, overall material cost, amortized facilities cost)? To some of your points: 1. Isn't super important because on the <<1% of sales that could happen that way they're required to inform you of your tax burden. 2. Break it out as a line item. Bold it. Maybe a bit more transparency would help with the pattern of stores raking in record profits when any upstream supplier has a minor price hiccup. 3. Having to memorize the tax rates in every city for every class of goods and apply those accurately on the fly doesn't benefit anyone unless it finally pisses off enough people to turn our mess of a system into something simpler. Displaying the actual tax rate on the receipt should more than suffice. The thing that worries me about the pattern of tacking on crap after a total had already been agreed to is that it conditions is to accept that as just something that happens once in awhile. Like how SF restaurants started tacking on a fixed percentage to cover employee health benefits when that law passed. You'd sit down to a meal, choose what you're going to eat at least partially based on the price and expected tip, and find out after the meal that they expect you to pay some amount greater than what was listed and societally accepted at the time -- and critically, on average it's a much greater fee than is actually required to pay the offending tax. That particular instance has gotten a little better since at least they usually have small-print signs informing you of that fact now, but it repeats itself in car dealerships making up line items passing on ordinary costs of doing business to consumers as if they were collecting ordinary sales tax, in toll companies separating out an additional fee for the envelope they're using to send you your bill, ....
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  I dont think simply putting on the reciept is a solution to #3, because people internalize pricing and make the choice to buy before the transaction. it would only work if the before Tax and After Tax price was displayed before purchase. Anything less is still hiding the taxation IMO Also I am intrigued by the people that say they are "Having to memorize the tax rates in every city" and "apply those accurately on the fly" I am not sure I have ever in my life needed to that? Why would you need to calculate that on the fly? Unless you are buying a big ticket item costing thousands of dollars then the tax should not be a factor on if you are going to buy X or not so what purpose would it have to calculate it in your head like that?
rockinghigh 4y ago
You can include the tax in the final price and show the breakdown. That's how it works in the rest of the world.
jessaustin 4y ago
In many cases, especially for flashy new restaurants in my state, the TIF fee exceeds other "taxes". Since these are solely for the benefit of the real estate developer and its tenants (including the restaurant), I would prefer that these were never split off from prices because that's misleading.
ketralnis 4y ago
But the rest of the world does include the tax in the advertised price and they do just fine
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Do they? The rest of the world has all kinds of Insane tax rates. I think the US Taxation is absurdly high and I pay in total about 25% to the government, many parts of the work 40-60% is common (when you factor all taxation), and that to me is out right theft.
  - jen20 4y ago
    Yes, they do. In most of the civilized world this practice is mandatory and everyone is better off for it.
pas 4y ago
If the company is collecting the tax they owe it after the sale. Yes it's a tax on consumption/commerce. There's no point saying it's paid by the buyer as there's no transaction without the seller either, and if there were no tax the seller were able to raise prices. (And likely the new market equilibrium would be somewhere between the two extremes, so it means both parties pay it actually.) And as others mentioned in many places the law says the receipt has to show the applied tax, so it's absolutely not hidden.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  I dont think simply putting on the receipt is a solution, because people internalize pricing and make the choice to buy before the transaction. it would only work if the before Tax and After Tax price was displayed before purchase. I would be agreed if they displayed/advertised both. but Only displaying / advertising the final post tax price and then itemizing it on the receipt does not change the psychology of the issue where by people will internalize the final price and not fully understand the tax component. In the same way people are complaining about not being able to understand the final price if it not displayed