5 ms·

Care to list the brand (model)? That seems insane to me. Firmware upgrades should be deliberate, and done with caution (hopefully starting with a backup).

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
Any update should be deliberate. Windows will now just update it self without asking over night. I often wake up, and see that my PC laptop has rebooted into Linux since that’s at the top in the bootloader.
- eatsyourtacos 4y ago
  Eh I think that is honestly just not true with regards to Windows, sorry. There are like 1.5 billion computers running it. Them forcing updates is simply the best procedure because we live in a world full of complete asshats that want to create chaos and do malicious shit. The average person would never update their computers "deliberately" if that was the default. It's simply the lesser of all evils to ensure people are relatively up to date on security. I don't really like it either, but I understand it completely.
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    There's a massive difference between a completely silent update and the more common "Update available, install now Y/N?" Apple, MS, etc should do the second. Even with a "do it now, or within 7 days, or we do it for you." Same for the router. For goods that have safety implications (cars), the updates should NEVER be silent. And probably need a long notification period with a detailed "What's New".
    - TylerE 4y ago
      What if it's a fix for an actively-exploited zero day?
      - alistairSH 4y ago
        Maybe give me a day? I absolutely don't want my laptop updating/rebooting while I'm in the middle of work. I understand the need to keep up to date for security reasons, but at some point, I just need my device to work without interruption.
      - 7speter 4y ago
        Have the press make noise about it. This has happened a few times with i devices and intel cpus. I shouldn’t have to fight my computer to stop it from upgrading itself to Windows 11
  - domador 4y ago
    Maybe there is some justification for Microsoft's design decision, but two undesirable side effects are that: 1. It angers power users who want their computer to retain their workspace's context, which is often easily lost between reboots. 2. It reduces Windows' usefulness as an OS on which to set up and run long-term processes, especially ones with real-time sensitivity, since Windows may decide to reboot itself at some unpredictable point in the process.
    - deafpolygon 4y ago
      > It reduces Windows' usefulness as an OS on which to set up and run long-term processes I suspect they want to push you towards the server edition, because that's where they make their money.
  - barking_biscuit 4y ago
    I honestly don't understand the downvotes here... Maybe it's because of the tone? But the message/content seems entirely accurate to me.
- RajT88 4y ago
  Not just that, I have observed that the more updates you have pending, the stranger the behavior of the OS. As if to incentivize you to reboot. There's no technical reason this is required - any system components will get updated after reboot, and this is not use Windows used to work. I am convinced it is intentionally introduced behavior, but proving it is difficult.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    i agree. if i experience unexpected behavior i will often check windows update
- 7speter 4y ago
  Not at all recent, unless you mean the last 5 years (at least) being recent
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    Haha yes, I only got a recent windows license 2 years ago when I was forced to get a new machine. There was no, “I don’t want windows” option. So I got it and just dual boot.
nerdponx 4y ago
I've read that silently pushing firmware updates to broadband modems is standard ISP practice, at least in the USA.
- ArchOversight 4y ago
  It's part of the DOCSIS standard. Users are not allowed to modify/update the firmware on a DOCSIS modem because that could potentially be used to unlock additional speed outside of the users paid for speeds due to the way that the standard does bandwidth limiting on the modem instead of further upstream. That is why ISPs have lists of cable modems that are certified for their networks, and thus the ones allowed to connect to them as that is the list they have firmware updates for.
rnjesus 4y ago
my eero pro does this. about once a month it will decide to update itself around two in the morning without any prompt, notification, or any way to defer or delay. there is no option to adjust update times. you can check the app manually and install available updates, but if you don’t do this within a certain amount of time, it will do it automatically within a few days. three times now i have been up late working on a project and it has kicked me offline to update. it’s so goddamned annoying. i wouldn’t have bought this router if i’d known it did this. (i also had to call them on the phone to get a custom ip range enabled on it, which, for a “pro” product, is just ridiculous).
lrem 4y ago
Ever heard of Tesla? ;)
- m463 4y ago
  firmware update - now all the buttons are smaller and harder to hit!
yencabulator 4y ago
> Firmware upgrades should be deliberate, and done with caution (hopefully starting with a backup). Many, many, devices don't allow firmware downgrades, on purpose. On the extreme end, Microsoft spent a huge amount of development effort to forbid that on the hardware level. I con't find the Xbox 360 link right now, but here's a Nintendo Switch one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23534793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23534793

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago

Any update should be deliberate. Windows will now just update it self without asking over night. I often wake up, and see that my PC laptop has rebooted into Linux since that’s at the top in the bootloader.

eatsyourtacos 4y ago
Eh I think that is honestly just not true with regards to Windows, sorry. There are like 1.5 billion computers running it. Them forcing updates is simply the best procedure because we live in a world full of complete asshats that want to create chaos and do malicious shit. The average person would never update their computers "deliberately" if that was the default. It's simply the lesser of all evils to ensure people are relatively up to date on security. I don't really like it either, but I understand it completely.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  There's a massive difference between a completely silent update and the more common "Update available, install now Y/N?" Apple, MS, etc should do the second. Even with a "do it now, or within 7 days, or we do it for you." Same for the router. For goods that have safety implications (cars), the updates should NEVER be silent. And probably need a long notification period with a detailed "What's New".
  - TylerE 4y ago
    What if it's a fix for an actively-exploited zero day?
    - alistairSH 4y ago
      Maybe give me a day? I absolutely don't want my laptop updating/rebooting while I'm in the middle of work. I understand the need to keep up to date for security reasons, but at some point, I just need my device to work without interruption.
    - 7speter 4y ago
      Have the press make noise about it. This has happened a few times with i devices and intel cpus. I shouldn’t have to fight my computer to stop it from upgrading itself to Windows 11
- domador 4y ago
  Maybe there is some justification for Microsoft's design decision, but two undesirable side effects are that: 1. It angers power users who want their computer to retain their workspace's context, which is often easily lost between reboots. 2. It reduces Windows' usefulness as an OS on which to set up and run long-term processes, especially ones with real-time sensitivity, since Windows may decide to reboot itself at some unpredictable point in the process.
  - deafpolygon 4y ago
    > It reduces Windows' usefulness as an OS on which to set up and run long-term processes I suspect they want to push you towards the server edition, because that's where they make their money.
- barking_biscuit 4y ago
  I honestly don't understand the downvotes here... Maybe it's because of the tone? But the message/content seems entirely accurate to me.
RajT88 4y ago
Not just that, I have observed that the more updates you have pending, the stranger the behavior of the OS. As if to incentivize you to reboot. There's no technical reason this is required - any system components will get updated after reboot, and this is not use Windows used to work. I am convinced it is intentionally introduced behavior, but proving it is difficult.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  i agree. if i experience unexpected behavior i will often check windows update
7speter 4y ago
Not at all recent, unless you mean the last 5 years (at least) being recent
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Haha yes, I only got a recent windows license 2 years ago when I was forced to get a new machine. There was no, “I don’t want windows” option. So I got it and just dual boot.

nerdponx 4y ago

I've read that silently pushing firmware updates to broadband modems is standard ISP practice, at least in the USA.

ArchOversight 4y ago
It's part of the DOCSIS standard. Users are not allowed to modify/update the firmware on a DOCSIS modem because that could potentially be used to unlock additional speed outside of the users paid for speeds due to the way that the standard does bandwidth limiting on the modem instead of further upstream. That is why ISPs have lists of cable modems that are certified for their networks, and thus the ones allowed to connect to them as that is the list they have firmware updates for.

rnjesus 4y ago

my eero pro does this. about once a month it will decide to update itself around two in the morning without any prompt, notification, or any way to defer or delay. there is no option to adjust update times. you can check the app manually and install available updates, but if you don’t do this within a certain amount of time, it will do it automatically within a few days. three times now i have been up late working on a project and it has kicked me offline to update. it’s so goddamned annoying. i wouldn’t have bought this router if i’d known it did this. (i also had to call them on the phone to get a custom ip range enabled on it, which, for a “pro” product, is just ridiculous).

lrem 4y ago

Ever heard of Tesla? ;)

m463 4y ago
firmware update - now all the buttons are smaller and harder to hit!

yencabulator 4y ago

> Firmware upgrades should be deliberate, and done with caution (hopefully starting with a backup). Many, many, devices don't allow firmware downgrades, on purpose. On the extreme end, Microsoft spent a huge amount of development effort to forbid that on the hardware level. I con't find the Xbox 360 link right now, but here's a Nintendo Switch one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23534793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23534793