8 ms·
Chloroform is great for extractions (if you don't care about the environment) because it sinks to the bottom of a sep funnel, but the thing about it being a kno
by xkcd-sucks 4y ago
Chloroform is great for extractions (if you don't care about the environment) because it sinks to the bottom of a sep funnel, but the thing about it being a knockout gas or sleep aid is complete BS.
Based on an unpublished study of about 4 degenerate chemistry undergrads:
- It PROBABLY takes several minutes of inhalation through a saturated rag to induce full loss of consciousness, although shorter times do produce noticeable wooziness
- However, full unconsciousness was not achieved in any subject because chloroform tasted too Totally Gross to continue past a minute or so (choking sickly-sweet)
- Subjective effects wore off within a few minutes, however the gross flavor persisted for several hours afterword much longer as residual chloroform washed out (along with mild headaches)
- Ingestion was not investigated.
So, in order to incapacitate someone you would have to force them to do really unpleasant for a long time, in which case you might as well choke them out, and the victim would regain consciousness quickly. And as a sleep aid it would likely need to be ingested, would induce sleep but not maintain it (i.e. wake up shortly), and would leave the user reeking of gross chloroform for long after.
Join us for our continued lecture series, covering topics such as:
- Why microwave assisted reactions in DMSO are a bad idea
- Why attempting GHB synthesis via permanganate oxidation of THF is a bad idea
- Harm reduction re: consumption of USP 99.9% ethanol
- How peroxyacid syntheses of various things do not scale up well and how they absolutely should not be coerced into running more quickly
- The poor efficacy of DMSO in assisting drug translocation through skin
- isk517 4y agoExcuse me sir, but are you implying that in 1993 at WrestleMania 9 when Giant Gonzalez knocked out the Undertaker using a chloroform soaked rag that it was all fake? If so then mister, I think you are full of crap. /s
- listless 4y agoUpvoted despite the Reddit flavoring
- ss108 4y agoIt was real if it was real to you goddammit
- mrguyorama 4y agoProfessional wrestling got a lot more fun and cool when I realized it isn't "fake", because it isn't trying to be real because it's actually supposed to be modern day Shakespeare
- isk517 4y agoI loved watching it as a kid and my friend convinced me to check out some modern stuff about 2 years ago and I have been having a blast watching it ever since.
- henriquemaia 4y agoRoland Barthes agrees. Check this essay he wrote in the 60s about wrestling. https://archive.org/details/barthes-world-of-wrestling/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/barthes-world-of-wrestling/mode/...
- Waterluvian 4y agoSame! Learning it was fake ruined it. And then realizing that it’s in on being “fake” and that it’s a soap opera made me appreciate it a lot. And “fake” may cover the results of the matches but it doesn’t cover how intense it is on their bodies. Olympic wrestling is probably a far easier sport on the body.
- TylerE 4y agoI got into it pretty hardcore after hearing an NPR doc on the Montreal Screwjob.
- RajT88 4y agoIt could well be a similar phenomenon to how silencers on firearms absolutely do not make a gun sound like it sounds in the movies, but because it's become an established (and convenient) film trope, it persists in film. Similarly - films depicting kidnapping people using chloroform as an instant knockout drug.
- occamrazor 4y agoI remember reading (can’t find the source anymore) that ether would work as knock-out drug, and that indeed it was used as a plot device in crime books as chloroform is used in movies today. The problem is that ether can be highly toxic at relatively low dosage, and then it was replaced by chloroform in fiction to avoid giving dangerous ideas to people. Is there any truth behind this theory?
- at-fates-hands 4y agoJust some anecdotal evidence to support what you're saying. When I was in college and a freshman, I was told the urban legend about the "ether bunny". The story about a freshman who finds out his roommate has been drugging and having sex with him using ether. I wasn't very knowledgeable about these stories or urban legends in general so when I was home for Christmas vacation, I told my Dad about it, and he started laughing and said it was an old college urban legend but when he was told it (in the 1960's) as a freshman they used chloroform instead of ether. He mentioned some other details about the story that were changed due to the times, but that was one point that was clearly changed over time, possibly for the same reason.
- martopix 4y agoHowever, drink 'spiking' for the same purpose is a thing, and people have been jailed for it.
- kortex 4y agoEther and chloroform both have relatively narrow therapeutic windows - the toxic dose is very close to the minimum active dose. But they were one of the few true anaesthetics at the time (late 1800s). Alcohol was also used for surgery but it's slower and inhibits clotting. In fact often it'd be a combination of all three, known as ACE [1]. This worked okay-ish, as the GABA-ergic synergy was able to suppress consciousness and memory without poisoning the patient's heart or liver (as) severely. The other big issue was flammability. Ether still takes enough time to reduce consciousness that you have a good minute or two (minimum) of struggle. It's not "towel over face, muffled screaming, then sleepytime". But an attacker with advantage of surprise and a decent grapple could usually get the target dosed before they could break free. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACE_mixture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACE_mixture
- kortex 4y ago> Join us for our continued lecture series, covering topics such as Please share/blog these! I too have several degenerate chemistry undergrad stories. > The poor efficacy of DMSO in assisting drug translocation through skin Yep. During one particularly sleep-deprived finals week, and after recently learning about DMSO's transdermal transportation abilities, my friend and I tried making caffeine skin patches. It worked...vaguely increasing alertness. However, it itched and burned worse than just about anything I've ever experienced. Also I can concur that chloroform isn't some instant knock-out juice. But one time, a lab mate and I were running massive columns and had accumulated several hundred liters of DCM (dichloromethane) fractions in flasks (yes, it was a loong day). Despite the walk-in hoods running at full bore, by the end of the day, coworker and I were loopy, giggly idiots. Was it above OSHA PEL? Possibly, but probably not. I think the disinhibition was a combination of energy drinks, fatigue+boredom of running hundreds of fractions, and suggestibility, as much as it was the fumes. But my lab manager did walk in at one point and immediately recoiled from the fumes (which we were nose-deaf to at that point).
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y agoYou have to really dilute DMSO if you're going to put it on your skin.
- kortex 4y agoI mean, pure DMSO on the skin feels fine, albeit not the safest.
- throwawaymaths 4y agoCan you not taste the garlic in your mouth for hours after?
- ta988 4y agoNot everybody does.
- 4y ago
- LeifCarrotson 4y ago> Harm reduction re: consumption of USP 99.9% ethanol According to Ignition! by John Clark, high-purity ethanol used for rocket fuel undergoes a similar phenomenon when in storage tanks near rocket scientists and Navy personnel. Interesting to see that this also occurs in the proximity of undergrads. Study operators claimed that dissolving the ethanol in H2O, or, preferably, lime juice and/or soda water, merits further study. But yes, I would also be interested in reading that continued series.
- function_seven 4y agoSo far the correlation between personnel proximity and tank depletion is just that: a correlation. All attempts at establishing causality have been met with fuzzy recollections, outright denials, and conflicting reports. More investigations are warranted.
- int_19h 4y agoThe earliest HDDs were not sealed and required regular maintenance to clean the heads manually; you were supposed to use ethanol or isopropanol for that purpose. There was a story from late Soviet times about this - since they lagged quite badly when it came to computing, even in late 80s there was still plenty of hardware around like that. And for every such hard drive, there would be accounting to track the amount of ethanol issued, so the engineers had to make do with what they could skim after the cleaning. But then around that time some better stuff began to trickle in - instead of 3-5 Mb HDDs, you could get a whopping 30 Mb! Those were sealed and required no cleaning... but the legend goes that, in one such place, it occurred to the engineers that accounting doesn't know that. So, instead, they submitted a request to procure more ethanol for cleaning, on the basis that a 30 Mb hard drive would obviously need 6 times as much for servicing as a 5 Mb one does. It was approved, and the arrangement lasted until the head of the department caught someone drunk and traced the source. (Another version of this legend has a slight variation in that the engineers submitted a request for more than 6x, deliberately making a mistake in math to make it look like a clumsy attempt to get more. Accounting promptly "caught" it and gave them a stern lecture about how they're not getting even one drop over what the proper number required... i.e. 6x.)
- spaceguillotine 4y agoyou're telling me that movies LIED to me my entire life, i'm shocked, SHOCKED i tell you!!!!
- kortex 4y ago> The poor efficacy of DMSO in assisting drug translocation through skin Oh yeah, for the observer gallery: The reason DMSO (and DMF, DMAc, HF, to an extent haloforms, and polar aprotic solvents in general) are dangerous is that they can dissolve and transport small molecules (under 1000 daltons, possibly more) through your skin and into the bloodstream. They go straight through nitrile, vinyl, and latex gloves. You need to match the glove to the solvent. For these strong solvents, you want aliphatic polymers (LDPE) or laminates (mylar aka aluminized polyester). Actually one of the best protection schemes is the shoulder-length polyethylene gloves used for ...ahem... bovine obstetrics, with nitrile over that for grip and to keep the cow glove in place. Looks hilarious but great for pouring nasty solutions or weighing dusty powders. https://www.amazon.com/livestocktool-com-Disposable-Artificial-Insemination-Veterinary/dp/B073STBJPJ https://www.amazon.com/livestocktool-com-Disposable-Artifici...
- azalemeth 4y agoThe garlic like smell of DMSO just doesn't leave you if it gets into your skin. It's "safe" but really, really bad to have fingertips smelling of it for days. I wish I had those bovine gloves during my PhD...
- nwiswell 4y ago> fingertips smelling of it for days It's even more insidious than that -- it is not only your fingertips that smell, since it penetrates the skin so readily. Pure DMSO itself is odorless, but it is metabolized into DMS, which stinks unbelievably strongly of garlic. The DMS has a very high systematic half-life (38 hours!!!) and remains dissolved in the blood, meaning your blood itself will stink of garlic for days after exposure. The gut punch, however, is that the victim is reportedly unable to smell it (probably because their olfactory tissue is literally awash in DMS), so they don't realize they smell like walking garlic bread.
- sterlind 4y agoisn't DMSO used as a (home?) remedy for joint pain? I've thought about trying it but have visions of it leaching the dye from my clothing and transporting it into my bloodstream. the garlic wouldn't make me many friends, but dissolving poisons is scarier.
- at_a_remove 4y agoThat's why the primitive anesthetic ACE (Alcohol, Chloroform, Ether) existed in many proportions, but never chloroform alone.
- giantg2 4y agoThe biggest issue is that it poses health risks, like being carcinogenic.
- Metacelsus 4y ago>Why attempting GHB synthesis via permanganate oxidation of THF is a bad idea I'm interested . . . is it because of the risk of blow-ups?
- iSnow 4y agoHoly lord, how do I join your curriculum? The topics look like straight out of Derek Lowe's "Things I won't work with"