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There's a hundred million neurons in our guts. It makes me think arguments about being brains in a vat, and treating the brain as a biological computer with inp

There's a hundred million neurons in our guts. It makes me think arguments about being brains in a vat, and treating the brain as a biological computer with inputs form the senses misses the fact that the brain is part of the nervous system extending throughout the body, and not some isolated system. An envatted brain isolated from the body is likely not going to function properly. The brain can only properly be understand as being part of a whole organism.

tines 4y ago
The "brain in a vat" concept only really makes sense if you are willing to draw a distinction between the conscious part and other parts of the body, i.e. if you are willing to admit that some parts of the world are mechanistic (the external world, the function of our eyes, sense of smell, etc) and some parts (including the brain) are not. If you are willing to admit that, then the brain-in-a-vat scenario says that you can emulate all these mechanical parts and feed the brain fake information, and the brain can't tell the difference. An envatted brain can be isolated from the body because it only knows the information at its own boundaries, i.e. at the boundary of the mechanistic and the non-mechanistic. If the point of your post is to say that the boundary is larger than that of the brain itself, but extends to the nervous system, gut bacteria, etc. then I think one could counter that all those things are relatively easily replaced by simulations and therefore don't need to be part of the brain in the vat to make the thought experiment work. A person can lose arms and legs and intestines and still be perfectly conscious. If you say that the brain itself could be replaced by a simulation and not lose any qualities, then the brain-in-a-vat thought experiment doesn't really mean anything for you because there would be nothing special about a brain anyway, and the scenario is vacuous.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  > A person can lose arms and legs and intestines and still be perfectly conscious. You can also lose parts of your brain and be totally fine! I'm not sure this proves as much as you think, though I do tend to agree.
  - tines 4y ago
    > parts key word :)
mcculley 4y ago
Also, hormones have an enormous effect on the brain. The speculation I have read about immortality through brain vat tech does not address that such brains might not have any reason to want to live.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  Right, one has to assume that a good vat for the brain looks pretty much like the body itself :)
  - aliqot 4y ago
    I just want my vat to have a good hairline. Is that so much to ask of the future?

tines 4y ago

The "brain in a vat" concept only really makes sense if you are willing to draw a distinction between the conscious part and other parts of the body, i.e. if you are willing to admit that some parts of the world are mechanistic (the external world, the function of our eyes, sense of smell, etc) and some parts (including the brain) are not. If you are willing to admit that, then the brain-in-a-vat scenario says that you can emulate all these mechanical parts and feed the brain fake information, and the brain can't tell the difference. An envatted brain can be isolated from the body because it only knows the information at its own boundaries, i.e. at the boundary of the mechanistic and the non-mechanistic. If the point of your post is to say that the boundary is larger than that of the brain itself, but extends to the nervous system, gut bacteria, etc. then I think one could counter that all those things are relatively easily replaced by simulations and therefore don't need to be part of the brain in the vat to make the thought experiment work. A person can lose arms and legs and intestines and still be perfectly conscious. If you say that the brain itself could be replaced by a simulation and not lose any qualities, then the brain-in-a-vat thought experiment doesn't really mean anything for you because there would be nothing special about a brain anyway, and the scenario is vacuous.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> A person can lose arms and legs and intestines and still be perfectly conscious. You can also lose parts of your brain and be totally fine! I'm not sure this proves as much as you think, though I do tend to agree.
- tines 4y ago
  > parts key word :)

mcculley 4y ago

Also, hormones have an enormous effect on the brain. The speculation I have read about immortality through brain vat tech does not address that such brains might not have any reason to want to live.

kzrdude 4y ago
Right, one has to assume that a good vat for the brain looks pretty much like the body itself :)
- aliqot 4y ago
  I just want my vat to have a good hairline. Is that so much to ask of the future?