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I feel this way about self driving cars as well. Its like even 10 years ago, the capabilities they have today would be considered mind blowing, yet they receive

I feel this way about self driving cars as well. Its like even 10 years ago, the capabilities they have today would be considered mind blowing, yet they receive so much hate because they aren't yet adapted to all situations. Its baffling to me, every time I watch a video of one I get all giddy and I am like we are living in the future! Yet even from tech circles, they get so much criticism because they aren't 100% there yet. Its just a mindset I don't understand. And on places like reddit there is definitely some astroturfing going on or at least some definite "camps" that don't like SDC technology, but on HN AFAICT its been genuine disdain. So weird.

daveguy 4y ago
I think most of the criticism with self driving is around the over-hyped under-delivered "full self driving" from Musk -- it actually seems to be getting worse compared to 5 years ago. Apparently Cruise and Waymo are doing much more impressive things, but they only get a fraction of the press.
- benlivengood 4y ago
  I'm curious how many people who criticize full self drive have actually ridden in the car while it navigates city streets. It makes about as many mistakes as a 1-3 years of practice new driver. I don't own a Tesla so I've ridden with friends. It's a barely noticeable difference between human and FSD operation, with very few overrides necessary.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  If they're doing more impressive things why is it not in production at scale, right now? Just earlier today there was a story of a Waymo car getting stuck in an intersection in SF. Those cars still need constant intervention and human assistance that's why.
  - daveguy 4y ago
    The miles between intervention is known for Waymo and Cruise. Tesla refuses to publish this data.
    - 93po 4y ago
      Waymo and Cruise have published their known operating areas. It's tiny and only during certain times of day (middle of the night). Tesla operates nearly everywhere. The scale of what's happening isn't even comparable.
      - daveguy 4y ago
        Estimates from users of FSD are ~5 miles between disengagements. https://sites.google.com/view/fsdbetacommunitytracker/home?pli=1 https://sites.google.com/view/fsdbetacommunitytracker/home?p... Even the best self reported areas are less than 100 miles between disengagement. Waymo and Cruise are at around 30,000 miles between disengagement. Tesla has released nothing.
        93po 4y ago
        Tesla has FSD released on literally every car in the US that has purchased it. Hundreds of thousands of cars. No one serious in the self driving space is using disengagements to pick winners or leaders on the path to commercialization. There is no standard about what qualifies as a disengagement and companies will interpret and report their disengagements differently. Those interpretations also change over time, making it even more difficult to actually understand how a company has progressed in its technology. And again you're missing the point. Waymo/Cruise are operating in an extremely different and much more narrow context than Tesla's FSD. Let's go put Waymo on a random road in a random city and see how it fares compared to Tesla FSD. I guarantee it will be tremendously worse and no one who knows anything about the space would argue otherwise.
        daveguy 4y ago
        Hundreds of thousands of 5 mile jaunts. Also, why is Tesla so adamant about how many accidents occured simply with FSD disabled? Shouldn't we know how long prior to the accident FSD was engaged? I mean, hitting the brakes in panic only technically makes it "not FSD". I'd be happy if you showed me any reported data, self or Tesla, of 30k miles before disengagement with FSD. Even within one order of magnitude instead of two.
- 93po 4y ago
  > it actually seems to be getting worse compared to 5 years ago. You pretty clearly don't know what you're talking about. > Apparently Cruise and Waymo are doing much more impressive things, but they only get a fraction of the press. They are doing objectively much less impressive things by relying on sensors that require much less intelligent analysis and will lead them to dead ends at the higher end of abilities that Tesla's approach won't.
  - daveguy 4y ago
    They can't even keep up with self-parking technology. All the other electric car manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with it. But Tesla's implementation is laughable. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nsb2XBAIWyA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nsb2XBAIWyA
deleted 4y ago
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CamperBob2 4y ago
Agreed. However, in the detractors' defense, self-driving cars were hyped beyond all reason by people like Musk, so it's easy to justify some very vocal pushback. GPT wasn't hyped much at all, in comparison. It just appeared. The next couple of iterations will be interesting to watch, since right now we don't really know what the rate of improvement is going to be. We might be fighting Skynet next year, or we might be in for another 50-year-long AI winter.

daveguy 4y ago

I think most of the criticism with self driving is around the over-hyped under-delivered "full self driving" from Musk -- it actually seems to be getting worse compared to 5 years ago. Apparently Cruise and Waymo are doing much more impressive things, but they only get a fraction of the press.

benlivengood 4y ago
I'm curious how many people who criticize full self drive have actually ridden in the car while it navigates city streets. It makes about as many mistakes as a 1-3 years of practice new driver. I don't own a Tesla so I've ridden with friends. It's a barely noticeable difference between human and FSD operation, with very few overrides necessary.
chrisco255 4y ago
If they're doing more impressive things why is it not in production at scale, right now? Just earlier today there was a story of a Waymo car getting stuck in an intersection in SF. Those cars still need constant intervention and human assistance that's why.
- daveguy 4y ago
  The miles between intervention is known for Waymo and Cruise. Tesla refuses to publish this data.
  - 93po 4y ago
    Waymo and Cruise have published their known operating areas. It's tiny and only during certain times of day (middle of the night). Tesla operates nearly everywhere. The scale of what's happening isn't even comparable.
    - daveguy 4y ago
      Estimates from users of FSD are ~5 miles between disengagements. https://sites.google.com/view/fsdbetacommunitytracker/home?pli=1 https://sites.google.com/view/fsdbetacommunitytracker/home?p... Even the best self reported areas are less than 100 miles between disengagement. Waymo and Cruise are at around 30,000 miles between disengagement. Tesla has released nothing.
      - 93po 4y ago
        Tesla has FSD released on literally every car in the US that has purchased it. Hundreds of thousands of cars. No one serious in the self driving space is using disengagements to pick winners or leaders on the path to commercialization. There is no standard about what qualifies as a disengagement and companies will interpret and report their disengagements differently. Those interpretations also change over time, making it even more difficult to actually understand how a company has progressed in its technology. And again you're missing the point. Waymo/Cruise are operating in an extremely different and much more narrow context than Tesla's FSD. Let's go put Waymo on a random road in a random city and see how it fares compared to Tesla FSD. I guarantee it will be tremendously worse and no one who knows anything about the space would argue otherwise.
        daveguy 4y ago
        Hundreds of thousands of 5 mile jaunts. Also, why is Tesla so adamant about how many accidents occured simply with FSD disabled? Shouldn't we know how long prior to the accident FSD was engaged? I mean, hitting the brakes in panic only technically makes it "not FSD". I'd be happy if you showed me any reported data, self or Tesla, of 30k miles before disengagement with FSD. Even within one order of magnitude instead of two.
93po 4y ago
> it actually seems to be getting worse compared to 5 years ago. You pretty clearly don't know what you're talking about. > Apparently Cruise and Waymo are doing much more impressive things, but they only get a fraction of the press. They are doing objectively much less impressive things by relying on sensors that require much less intelligent analysis and will lead them to dead ends at the higher end of abilities that Tesla's approach won't.
- daveguy 4y ago
  They can't even keep up with self-parking technology. All the other electric car manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with it. But Tesla's implementation is laughable. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nsb2XBAIWyA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nsb2XBAIWyA

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

CamperBob2 4y ago

Agreed. However, in the detractors' defense, self-driving cars were hyped beyond all reason by people like Musk, so it's easy to justify some very vocal pushback. GPT wasn't hyped much at all, in comparison. It just appeared. The next couple of iterations will be interesting to watch, since right now we don't really know what the rate of improvement is going to be. We might be fighting Skynet next year, or we might be in for another 50-year-long AI winter.