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Victim isn't the right word because none of it is accidental. It's intentional design dating all the way back to 13th amendment which states. "The Thirteenth A

Victim isn't the right word because none of it is accidental. It's intentional design dating all the way back to 13th amendment which states. "The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. " My brother in law was released recently from 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. He spent 12 years doing slave labor for a $1.25 while being charged absorbent fees to make phone calls, send emails (something like $5 for 10 minutes), and purchase the daily necessities like deodorant and medicine. After 12 years, he still owes reparation where even if he was paid a bare minimum wage he could have easily repaid his debt to society. The US has the largest number of incarnated adults in the developed world because our government and capitalism demands it be so. We are a society whose engine has always been driven by slave labor. Until I was exposed to it in this manner, I would have been a "who cares do the crime pay the price" but that price extends so far, impacts everyone in a prisoners family even if they did no crime, and sets them up for failure when reentering the world. None of it is accidental, all the way down to stubborn insistence on impeding criminal reform around drugs and petty crime to the prison industrial complex being the single biggest contributor to anti-pot reform pacs and advertising. Companies make billions over charging and exploiting convicts in every conceivable way right down to sheriffs feeding them trash and keeping the delta in the food budget to buy themselves homes and luxuries.

prepend 4y ago
> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sentence. There are many flaws with the prison system but I wanted to point out the logical flaw of “no one was killed in this game of Russian roulette so it’s not that bad of a thing” kind of thinking. Threatening someone’s life for $35k is a big deal, I think.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  Have to agree. We punish violent crime and corruption lightly; nonviolent crime inhumanely unforgivingly. If there was no violence, threat of violence, fraud or corruption, the limit should be two years. If there was, the minimum should be much higher.
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Because of the mandatory guidelines at the time (which have since been declared unconstitutional) any felony committed while in possession of a firearm federally had a 15 year minimum with no discretion for the judge.
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    I would go further. Prison should only be used for violent crimes with a high degree of intentionality. It's been said that if you asked someone to design a process to create more criminals, they would likely invent prisons: mix as many skilled criminals, with random unfortunate individuals, so that they can share their knowledge of criminality, and have to fight to survive. Prison is bad as a deterrent and is terrible at reforming criminals. The only thing prison is good at, is keeping violent people off the street. There's absolutely no reason why non-violent offenders should be in a prison, give them any other punishment instead.
- wstuartcl 4y ago
  Lol yeah, armed robbery is effectively the charge for someone that was totally willing to kill while robbing but due to circumstances did not need to. That should not be considered a light crime.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    How do you know they were willing to kill? If you rob someone you need to threaten them regardless if you are going to follow through.
    - 4y ago
pasquinelli 4y ago
there's someone close to me in prison for murder. for me, there's no getting around what they did. at the same time, i've come in contact with the criminal justice system through them, and there's also no getting around what it is: a disgusting and irredeemable machine of exploitation. i didn't always used to see it that way, but now i know better.
Tangurena2 4y ago
The late 1800s and early 1900s exploited this on behalf of White Supremacy. All of the Jim Crow states had laws against vagrancy which were only enforced against "colored" people. If you failed to have a job, local law enforcement would arrest you for "vagrancy" and the prison would rent your body out to work on the "chain gang". Prisoners got paid nothing. The politically connected "good old boys" would get paid for renting out the prisoners.
ActorNightly 4y ago
>The US has the largest number of incarnated adults in the developed world because our government and capitalism demands it be so No, US has the largest number of adults in prison because we have a very ideologically diverse population, as well as a semblance of personal freedom, which necessarily will result in more people committing crimes. Nothing to do with capitalism. In fact, a true capitalism-based solutions would actually be organized forced labor camps - instead of sitting in cells prisoners would be forced to work, and have access to food and medicine to continue to optimize their productivity. Also, as an aside >Until I was exposed to it in this manner, I would have been a "who cares do the crime pay the price" but that price extends so far, impacts everyone in a prisoners family even if they did no crime, and sets them up for failure when reentering the world. If you hold a position but change this solely because of a personal experience, you don't actually believe in either side of the issue, you just go with what feels right.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  I think you might want to research the penal systems of the US a bit more closely. More than one state essentially functions on convict labor.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    Functions is a strong word. Yes, convict labor is cheap. But its availability is generally not manufactured. Im sure that there are some sociopathic people that would absolutely love the idea of putting more people in prison to take advantage of cheap labor, but the system we live is pretty robust to that kind of bullshit, with a few exceptions of course.
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      It is, but I'm not one for hyperbole. Arizona communities would 'collapse' without cheap prison labor, Corrections director says https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/07/14/arizona-cities-would-collapse-without-prison-labor/10062910002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/07/1... Louisiana is another state that's notable for the degree to which it has institutionalized this economic practice.

prepend 4y ago

> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sentence. There are many flaws with the prison system but I wanted to point out the logical flaw of “no one was killed in this game of Russian roulette so it’s not that bad of a thing” kind of thinking. Threatening someone’s life for $35k is a big deal, I think.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
Have to agree. We punish violent crime and corruption lightly; nonviolent crime inhumanely unforgivingly. If there was no violence, threat of violence, fraud or corruption, the limit should be two years. If there was, the minimum should be much higher.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Because of the mandatory guidelines at the time (which have since been declared unconstitutional) any felony committed while in possession of a firearm federally had a 15 year minimum with no discretion for the judge.
- zarzavat 4y ago
  I would go further. Prison should only be used for violent crimes with a high degree of intentionality. It's been said that if you asked someone to design a process to create more criminals, they would likely invent prisons: mix as many skilled criminals, with random unfortunate individuals, so that they can share their knowledge of criminality, and have to fight to survive. Prison is bad as a deterrent and is terrible at reforming criminals. The only thing prison is good at, is keeping violent people off the street. There's absolutely no reason why non-violent offenders should be in a prison, give them any other punishment instead.
wstuartcl 4y ago
Lol yeah, armed robbery is effectively the charge for someone that was totally willing to kill while robbing but due to circumstances did not need to. That should not be considered a light crime.
- themitigating 4y ago
  How do you know they were willing to kill? If you rob someone you need to threaten them regardless if you are going to follow through.
  - 4y ago

pasquinelli 4y ago

there's someone close to me in prison for murder. for me, there's no getting around what they did. at the same time, i've come in contact with the criminal justice system through them, and there's also no getting around what it is: a disgusting and irredeemable machine of exploitation. i didn't always used to see it that way, but now i know better.

Tangurena2 4y ago

The late 1800s and early 1900s exploited this on behalf of White Supremacy. All of the Jim Crow states had laws against vagrancy which were only enforced against "colored" people. If you failed to have a job, local law enforcement would arrest you for "vagrancy" and the prison would rent your body out to work on the "chain gang". Prisoners got paid nothing. The politically connected "good old boys" would get paid for renting out the prisoners.

ActorNightly 4y ago

>The US has the largest number of incarnated adults in the developed world because our government and capitalism demands it be so No, US has the largest number of adults in prison because we have a very ideologically diverse population, as well as a semblance of personal freedom, which necessarily will result in more people committing crimes. Nothing to do with capitalism. In fact, a true capitalism-based solutions would actually be organized forced labor camps - instead of sitting in cells prisoners would be forced to work, and have access to food and medicine to continue to optimize their productivity. Also, as an aside >Until I was exposed to it in this manner, I would have been a "who cares do the crime pay the price" but that price extends so far, impacts everyone in a prisoners family even if they did no crime, and sets them up for failure when reentering the world. If you hold a position but change this solely because of a personal experience, you don't actually believe in either side of the issue, you just go with what feels right.

anigbrowl 4y ago
I think you might want to research the penal systems of the US a bit more closely. More than one state essentially functions on convict labor.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  Functions is a strong word. Yes, convict labor is cheap. But its availability is generally not manufactured. Im sure that there are some sociopathic people that would absolutely love the idea of putting more people in prison to take advantage of cheap labor, but the system we live is pretty robust to that kind of bullshit, with a few exceptions of course.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    It is, but I'm not one for hyperbole. Arizona communities would 'collapse' without cheap prison labor, Corrections director says https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/07/14/arizona-cities-would-collapse-without-prison-labor/10062910002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/07/1... Louisiana is another state that's notable for the degree to which it has institutionalized this economic practice.