5 ms·

Many people consider porn fundamentally immoral, not to mention most porn has connection to sex trafficking.

NikolaNovak 4y ago
I understand the first part of the claim - many people indeed do consider porn immoral, for whatever personal reasons they have. I may disagree with them, but your statement is still valid, and more power to them as long as they keep it to themselves. I do not understand the second part of the claim, that "most porn has connection to sex trafficking". This seems a fairly strong statement (there's a huge amount of porn, so "Most" is gonna be a very large number), and have never seen anything remotely accurate supporting it (occasional allusions from those who consider porn immoral, but with no meaningful statistical significance). Not to say there isn't a considerable Venn diagram, and that Venn diagram should be reduced through strong law enforcement, but "most" seems wildly inaccurate.
- TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
  Agreed we shouldn't speak so broadly, but let's not be naive here. Part of the reason California legalized adult filmmaking was to reduce trafficking. In California they have agents, everywhere else they have pimps. Just one example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pleads-guilty-girlsdoporn-sex-trafficking-conspiracy https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pl...
  - vagrantJin 4y ago
    Pimps are not neccesarily traffickers. It might be hard to digest but a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice. We should have tougher law enforcement to weed out the bad apples, but that is difficult since this isssue seems to involve two things that are extremely nebulous and difficult to weigh. Sex and morality.
    - TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
      > "Pimps are not neccesarily [sic] traffickers" Right, they just use force, fraud, and coercion as they recruit, transport, and provide their victims as prostitutes. Totally different... > "a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice" Cool, can you share your stats that a "large proportion" of people go in by choice?
      - vagrantJin 4y ago
        Interesting that you want stats. In the interest of science - would you be willing to talk to actual prostitutes from down the street to those on social media and platforms like only fans - to collect the data yourself. Thats within your means to do is it not? If you are genuinely interested in the well being of prostitutes that is. > Right, they just use force, fraud, and coercion as they recruit, transport, and provide their victims as prostitutes. Totally different... It is different. My point is trafficking is bigger than prostitution.
        TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
        Just wondering if you had any evidence at all for your claim. You've had two chances to post it. > It is different Oh, did you notify the Office on Trafficking in Persons?! That's the definition they give for sex trafficking https://www.acf.hhs.gov/otip/fact-sheet/resource/fshumantrafficking https://www.acf.hhs.gov/otip/fact-sheet/resource/fshumantraf... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking > My point is trafficking is bigger than prostitution Agreed! I thought your point was "a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice" though? I guess not!
  - jobs_throwaway 4y ago
    precision =/= naivety if you're going to make a strong claim like "most porn has connection to sex trafficking", you should have strong evidence to back that up
last_responder 4y ago
>not to mention most porn has connection to sex trafficking. Citation needed
- mschuster91 4y ago
  They are probably referring to cases like the Pornhub scandal, GirlsDoPorn or recently arrested Andrew Tate who is alleged to have lured and exploited young women for camgirl work.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Of the entire body of porn in existence, is it closer to 2% or 51% that is trafficking-implicated? Is "some"? Yes. Is "most"? I seriously doubt it.
    - ROTMetro 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        I’ve communicated no judgement that I’m OK with the subset that is. Since you’ve accused me of being OK with it, I’ll now respond to unambiguously and strenuously deny that accusation.
      - aftbit 4y ago
        The same logic applies to industrial farming, at least in USA. Literal slave labor produces a bunch of the food that we eat and export. It probably isn't >50% though. This is a really interesting ethical argument though. How exploitative does an industry need to be before we'll consider it unacceptable?
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      US-made porn I'd agree with you, the unions and other associations (e.g. APAG) have a pretty good eye, and the record-keeping requirements help out as well. Internationally however? Oh hell no. Particularly Eastern Europe has been rife with stories of exploitation for decades, and some Asian countries have an even worse problem with sexual exploitation of minors. For example, Andrew Tate, moron that he is, just made the error of publicly admitting that the police doesn't care about sexual exploitation on camera - now he forced the hands of the police to act.

I understand the first part of the claim - many people indeed do consider porn immoral, for whatever personal reasons they have. I may disagree with them, but your statement is still valid, and more power to them as long as they keep it to themselves. I do not understand the second part of the claim, that "most porn has connection to sex trafficking". This seems a fairly strong statement (there's a huge amount of porn, so "Most" is gonna be a very large number), and have never seen anything remotely accurate supporting it (occasional allusions from those who consider porn immoral, but with no meaningful statistical significance). Not to say there isn't a considerable Venn diagram, and that Venn diagram should be reduced through strong law enforcement, but "most" seems wildly inaccurate.

TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
Agreed we shouldn't speak so broadly, but let's not be naive here. Part of the reason California legalized adult filmmaking was to reduce trafficking. In California they have agents, everywhere else they have pimps. Just one example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pleads-guilty-girlsdoporn-sex-trafficking-conspiracy https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pl...
- vagrantJin 4y ago
  Pimps are not neccesarily traffickers. It might be hard to digest but a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice. We should have tougher law enforcement to weed out the bad apples, but that is difficult since this isssue seems to involve two things that are extremely nebulous and difficult to weigh. Sex and morality.
  - TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
    > "Pimps are not neccesarily [sic] traffickers" Right, they just use force, fraud, and coercion as they recruit, transport, and provide their victims as prostitutes. Totally different... > "a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice" Cool, can you share your stats that a "large proportion" of people go in by choice?
    - vagrantJin 4y ago
      Interesting that you want stats. In the interest of science - would you be willing to talk to actual prostitutes from down the street to those on social media and platforms like only fans - to collect the data yourself. Thats within your means to do is it not? If you are genuinely interested in the well being of prostitutes that is. > Right, they just use force, fraud, and coercion as they recruit, transport, and provide their victims as prostitutes. Totally different... It is different. My point is trafficking is bigger than prostitution.
      - TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
        Just wondering if you had any evidence at all for your claim. You've had two chances to post it. > It is different Oh, did you notify the Office on Trafficking in Persons?! That's the definition they give for sex trafficking https://www.acf.hhs.gov/otip/fact-sheet/resource/fshumantrafficking https://www.acf.hhs.gov/otip/fact-sheet/resource/fshumantraf... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking > My point is trafficking is bigger than prostitution Agreed! I thought your point was "a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice" though? I guess not!
- jobs_throwaway 4y ago
  precision =/= naivety if you're going to make a strong claim like "most porn has connection to sex trafficking", you should have strong evidence to back that up

last_responder 4y ago

>not to mention most porn has connection to sex trafficking. Citation needed

mschuster91 4y ago
They are probably referring to cases like the Pornhub scandal, GirlsDoPorn or recently arrested Andrew Tate who is alleged to have lured and exploited young women for camgirl work.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Of the entire body of porn in existence, is it closer to 2% or 51% that is trafficking-implicated? Is "some"? Yes. Is "most"? I seriously doubt it.
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I’ve communicated no judgement that I’m OK with the subset that is. Since you’ve accused me of being OK with it, I’ll now respond to unambiguously and strenuously deny that accusation.
    - aftbit 4y ago
      The same logic applies to industrial farming, at least in USA. Literal slave labor produces a bunch of the food that we eat and export. It probably isn't >50% though. This is a really interesting ethical argument though. How exploitative does an industry need to be before we'll consider it unacceptable?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    US-made porn I'd agree with you, the unions and other associations (e.g. APAG) have a pretty good eye, and the record-keeping requirements help out as well. Internationally however? Oh hell no. Particularly Eastern Europe has been rife with stories of exploitation for decades, and some Asian countries have an even worse problem with sexual exploitation of minors. For example, Andrew Tate, moron that he is, just made the error of publicly admitting that the police doesn't care about sexual exploitation on camera - now he forced the hands of the police to act.