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I cannot imagine being a software dev for these projects. I'd rather work on a porn-site.

adenozine 4y ago
Why work for either? I mean, money, obviously, but if you can get paid to code porn you can get paid to code for a lot of other things too. Edit: Ah, I didn't realize this was a safe space for perverts who hate women. Cool. Cool cool cool. Very cool. Why am I even surprised?
- barbazoo 4y ago
  What's wrong with pornography?
  - Spivak 4y ago
    It’s crazy how weirdly we moralize porn when it’s a massive industry that basically everyone consumes in one form or another.
  - tarotuser 4y ago
    Most people will respond with "immorality" or likewise. What it amounts to is badly interpreted bible verses by the 3 Abrahamic religions as a means of social control over the taboo of sex. As someone who follows the old religions, I see this everywhere. The men are expected to be open to sex, but women who do are seen as whores. But, that's where the taboo of sexwork comes from. And to link it back to the article, Calvinism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism ) is the primary and dominant reason why prisons are as brutish as they are. The basic gist of this form of Protestant Christianity is that 'you are predestined to be a horrible person and predestined to be in prison, so we have the right to treat you inhumanely as possible because you deserve it'. Capitalist monopoly forces also have a bearing here in the price gouging, but the basic infrastructure of a prison is brutish because "you deserve it", in a Calvinist sense.
- dang 4y ago
  > Ah, I didn't realize this was a safe space for perverts who hate women. Cool. Cool cool cool. Very cool. "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." "Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." It's reliably a marker of bad comments and worse threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - adenozine 4y ago
    Yeah? Want to know a reliable marker for a history of abuse, fraud, violence, and criminal tendencies? Pornography. Like many here, I have several adult daughters, and I’ve given a lot of thought to what role pornography has in our society. You can sit there and act like my position is unreasonable, but while you do so, women are being trafficked for porn, suffering violence for porn, being drugged for porn, being coerced by their boyfriends and spouses for porn, and more. Frankly, you can all spare me the bullshit, as if there could be one iota of legitimacy to the entire adult entertainment industry. Absolutely sickening.
    - dang 4y ago
      Would you please stop posting like this? It's very obviously not what HN is for, if you'll read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may be completely right but this is not the way to go about showing it to everyone. We don't want garden-variety internet flamewar here—it's exactly the opposite of curious conversation.
      - adenozine 4y ago
        Dang, garden variety is normalization of extremely victimizing behaviors surrounding an industry? My posts haven’t been rude or unclear. I never made a sharp or crass remark directed at anybody in particular. You’re characterizing my dismissal of defensive statements about pornography as inciting a flamewar? I’ve read the guidelines. I need for you to explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms exactly what I’ve said that is not acceptable for HN and why it cannot be allowed whilst speech supporting an industry that systematically abducts, trafficks, abuses and exploits women is acceptable and not say, garden-variety misogyny. Curious conversation? This place has a point system, fake names, and a voting mechanic, so, give us all a break with the platitudes. I’m looking forward to your explanation.
sokoloff 4y ago
What’s wrong with working on a porn site? I’d feel better about working on a porn site than at least one of FAANGs.
- kneebonian 4y ago
  Many people consider porn fundamentally immoral, not to mention most porn has connection to sex trafficking.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    I understand the first part of the claim - many people indeed do consider porn immoral, for whatever personal reasons they have. I may disagree with them, but your statement is still valid, and more power to them as long as they keep it to themselves. I do not understand the second part of the claim, that "most porn has connection to sex trafficking". This seems a fairly strong statement (there's a huge amount of porn, so "Most" is gonna be a very large number), and have never seen anything remotely accurate supporting it (occasional allusions from those who consider porn immoral, but with no meaningful statistical significance). Not to say there isn't a considerable Venn diagram, and that Venn diagram should be reduced through strong law enforcement, but "most" seems wildly inaccurate.
    - TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
      Agreed we shouldn't speak so broadly, but let's not be naive here. Part of the reason California legalized adult filmmaking was to reduce trafficking. In California they have agents, everywhere else they have pimps. Just one example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pleads-guilty-girlsdoporn-sex-trafficking-conspiracy https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pl...
      - vagrantJin 4y ago
        Pimps are not neccesarily traffickers. It might be hard to digest but a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice. We should have tougher law enforcement to weed out the bad apples, but that is difficult since this isssue seems to involve two things that are extremely nebulous and difficult to weigh. Sex and morality.
Someone1234 4y ago
I'm not sure the technology itself is evil, it is the business model that is the problem. Which is to say that you don't need to be a software developer to be morally compromised, you could be a secretary/recruiter/etc and still feel compromised by this employer's practices. The only reason they aren't just trying to charge for physical mail letter reviews is that that is too transparent, the public understands exactly how immoral that is. Once you add technology a lot of people's brains shut off because of the "complexity" they assume exists, particularly once the vendor starts with the buzzword vomit (e.g. "High Security cloud service utilizes the latest deep learning technology to detect abuse and illegal subjects, then we have a team of experienced experts for secondary review"). So tech is the smoke-screen here, but it is immoral no matter how you slice it.
metadat 4y ago
Porn system development isn't that bad, most shops replace obscene material with a Mickey mouse pic or similar.

Why work for either? I mean, money, obviously, but if you can get paid to code porn you can get paid to code for a lot of other things too. Edit: Ah, I didn't realize this was a safe space for perverts who hate women. Cool. Cool cool cool. Very cool. Why am I even surprised?

barbazoo 4y ago
What's wrong with pornography?
- Spivak 4y ago
  It’s crazy how weirdly we moralize porn when it’s a massive industry that basically everyone consumes in one form or another.
- tarotuser 4y ago
  Most people will respond with "immorality" or likewise. What it amounts to is badly interpreted bible verses by the 3 Abrahamic religions as a means of social control over the taboo of sex. As someone who follows the old religions, I see this everywhere. The men are expected to be open to sex, but women who do are seen as whores. But, that's where the taboo of sexwork comes from. And to link it back to the article, Calvinism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism ) is the primary and dominant reason why prisons are as brutish as they are. The basic gist of this form of Protestant Christianity is that 'you are predestined to be a horrible person and predestined to be in prison, so we have the right to treat you inhumanely as possible because you deserve it'. Capitalist monopoly forces also have a bearing here in the price gouging, but the basic infrastructure of a prison is brutish because "you deserve it", in a Calvinist sense.
dang 4y ago
> Ah, I didn't realize this was a safe space for perverts who hate women. Cool. Cool cool cool. Very cool. "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." "Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." It's reliably a marker of bad comments and worse threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- adenozine 4y ago
  Yeah? Want to know a reliable marker for a history of abuse, fraud, violence, and criminal tendencies? Pornography. Like many here, I have several adult daughters, and I’ve given a lot of thought to what role pornography has in our society. You can sit there and act like my position is unreasonable, but while you do so, women are being trafficked for porn, suffering violence for porn, being drugged for porn, being coerced by their boyfriends and spouses for porn, and more. Frankly, you can all spare me the bullshit, as if there could be one iota of legitimacy to the entire adult entertainment industry. Absolutely sickening.
  - dang 4y ago
    Would you please stop posting like this? It's very obviously not what HN is for, if you'll read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may be completely right but this is not the way to go about showing it to everyone. We don't want garden-variety internet flamewar here—it's exactly the opposite of curious conversation.
    - adenozine 4y ago
      Dang, garden variety is normalization of extremely victimizing behaviors surrounding an industry? My posts haven’t been rude or unclear. I never made a sharp or crass remark directed at anybody in particular. You’re characterizing my dismissal of defensive statements about pornography as inciting a flamewar? I’ve read the guidelines. I need for you to explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms exactly what I’ve said that is not acceptable for HN and why it cannot be allowed whilst speech supporting an industry that systematically abducts, trafficks, abuses and exploits women is acceptable and not say, garden-variety misogyny. Curious conversation? This place has a point system, fake names, and a voting mechanic, so, give us all a break with the platitudes. I’m looking forward to your explanation.

sokoloff 4y ago

What’s wrong with working on a porn site? I’d feel better about working on a porn site than at least one of FAANGs.

kneebonian 4y ago
Many people consider porn fundamentally immoral, not to mention most porn has connection to sex trafficking.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  I understand the first part of the claim - many people indeed do consider porn immoral, for whatever personal reasons they have. I may disagree with them, but your statement is still valid, and more power to them as long as they keep it to themselves. I do not understand the second part of the claim, that "most porn has connection to sex trafficking". This seems a fairly strong statement (there's a huge amount of porn, so "Most" is gonna be a very large number), and have never seen anything remotely accurate supporting it (occasional allusions from those who consider porn immoral, but with no meaningful statistical significance). Not to say there isn't a considerable Venn diagram, and that Venn diagram should be reduced through strong law enforcement, but "most" seems wildly inaccurate.
  - TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
    Agreed we shouldn't speak so broadly, but let's not be naive here. Part of the reason California legalized adult filmmaking was to reduce trafficking. In California they have agents, everywhere else they have pimps. Just one example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pleads-guilty-girlsdoporn-sex-trafficking-conspiracy https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/adult-film-performer-pl...
    - vagrantJin 4y ago
      Pimps are not neccesarily traffickers. It might be hard to digest but a large majority of people in the industry go in by choice. We should have tougher law enforcement to weed out the bad apples, but that is difficult since this isssue seems to involve two things that are extremely nebulous and difficult to weigh. Sex and morality.

Someone1234 4y ago

I'm not sure the technology itself is evil, it is the business model that is the problem. Which is to say that you don't need to be a software developer to be morally compromised, you could be a secretary/recruiter/etc and still feel compromised by this employer's practices. The only reason they aren't just trying to charge for physical mail letter reviews is that that is too transparent, the public understands exactly how immoral that is. Once you add technology a lot of people's brains shut off because of the "complexity" they assume exists, particularly once the vendor starts with the buzzword vomit (e.g. "High Security cloud service utilizes the latest deep learning technology to detect abuse and illegal subjects, then we have a team of experienced experts for secondary review"). So tech is the smoke-screen here, but it is immoral no matter how you slice it.

metadat 4y ago

Porn system development isn't that bad, most shops replace obscene material with a Mickey mouse pic or similar.