7 ms·

I'm locked in my own personality trap. I don't understand why people buy shit and my toxic also think they are dumb sheep of some made up social values. And I c

I'm locked in my own personality trap. I don't understand why people buy shit and my toxic also think they are dumb sheep of some made up social values. And I can't change myself to get out of my trap. I always think what I'm going to sell to people has to be really good .. but I just realize it's about a lot of bullshit going on on marketing and sales and network effect vs pure functionality.

gizmo 4y ago
You don't have to cynically exploit your customers just because that's what other businesses do. If you can make an excellent product that solves a real problem and charge a reasonable price for it you'll likely do pretty well. Sure, other people will become immensely successful by cheating or by gaming the system in some way. But what difference does that make? Just do your own thing.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  > gaming the system I think this is the point. Because the game is actually the psychology around why people buy shit. I can't make myself do that. For example. I can't ride the wave of hype because I don't believe its value is real or sustainable. Well a lot of excuse, right, that's why it's my trap.
  - sometimeshuman 4y ago
    > I can't make myself do that. Then don't. Or maybe you subconsciously don't want to do the work or have no good ideas. That's OK. But I can't see how this cynical attitude serves you otherwise. As a reminder YC's mantra is "build something people want". There are plenty of now wealthy people on this forum that did that. Some never even had to do marketing because customers were so happy.
    - Existenceblinks 4y ago
      I don't get why they were so happy with avatar generator for example. I actually understand it's sort of fun. But $30 for that is a nope to me. This is why my mindset limits my idea space. I need to get out of that.
sargstuff 4y ago
long as it's legal/legitimate, does it really matter if can make enough $$$ to earn a living? nerf was last minute class project.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  It doesn't matter. But as I said, I can't make myself do it. I can't made up beuatiful words to describe pseudo values that I can't provide. For example, I don't believe in productivity app like timer that records many activity in a day, but people do really buy it I couldn't make myself believe .. like really? So when something is obviously good to sell, and I think it's dumb, I guess I can't make myself sell the thing to dumb people. Ah.. it's a trap.
  - sargstuff 4y ago
    existenceblinks wrote: "... Ah it's a trap." Well, all the more reason to thing in terms of trees/heaps & not traditional loops/recursive functional loops. Let someone else handle the mark & sweep clean up.
    - Existenceblinks 4y ago
      Sounds like a GPT to me!
  - fuzzfactor 4y ago
    Seems to me like you're not much of a consumer yourself. Me neither, I'm a producer. So I sell to other producers. Sometimes big ones. Then one call does it all. Yes it has to be good.
    - Existenceblinks 4y ago
      Yes, I found myself a minimal consumer and I think it affects my producer side because I have less clue why people why things.
agumonkey 4y ago
yeah we have to blur it out... your excellence can be sold but only to a few, the rest will want various degrees or simplicity, cost etc anything in that game requires a lot of planning to make something livable that can be sold at many groups over many years so you can finally get enough leverage to move the minds along some value axis
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  I think most thing sold because of lust. Example: 1) avatar generator by ai 2) my local aunties bought iPhone Pro Max just to facebook and chat .. and of course taking pictures.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    This is part of the psychology/marketing leverage for sure, there's a lot more human traits that explain behavior.
graeme 4y ago
Here’s a quick tip: remove the word “bullshit” from your personality and assume that people aren’t morons. People obviously do do dumb things, and some stuff is obviously crap. But if you change perspectives a lot of stuff actually….makes sense? Like, looking at the world and seeing a bunch of bullshit is actually a flaw in your own thinking, not the world. Take fast food for example. Widely derided, clearly poisons the body, not the best taste, produces a lot of waste. More expensive than cooking. But, flip it around: * Standard experience —> you know exactly what you’re getting * Much cheaper than restaurant food * Much faster than restaurant or home cooked food * Tasty * Easy It’s something with obvious downsides but also obvious upsides. It isn’t obviously dumb. It is only obviously dumb if you decide the downsides outweigh the upsides and then ignore all the upsides. Which is flawed thinking. You can repeat this analysis and find that on their own terms most people mostly aren’t doing things that are totally irrational. Even something like a lottery ticket gives someone hope despite the clear negative EV. You can take that too far, but…. The point is if you think everything is bullshit, your analysis is probably crap. And merely allowing yourself to use the term bullshit rewards this sort of lazy, negative analysis. Whatever you sell doesn’t have to be the absolute best of all possible things. But it has to meet a need, and the vast bulk of stuff which sells does exactly that.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  Appreciate your effort. But I would say food is not a really good example. I can relate taste via tongue, it's something very understandable. I don't think I can trust bias(reasons) after bought something. > The point is if you think everything is bullshit, your analysis is probably crap. Yes, it is crap. Because as I say I most values I can't relate .. a lot of why > But it has to meet a need That's the problem. Most of the time I don't think they need it.
  - graeme 4y ago
    Sure but that's an empathy problem. If you intend to sell anything to anyone you need to change your whole perspective. For example, say someone goes buys a mac because they think the software is pretty and they like having things managed. You can't argue they are mistaken because you could get a linux machine with freedom for much less. They don't want such a thing. Conversely, say someone buys a Linux machine because they like getting inexpensive tools and they enjoy fiddling with software. You can't say they are wrong because they could spend much less effort on computing by buying a mac. There are no mistakes in either choice if they align with preferences. Here's an example of a mistake: buying a linux machine for ease of use, or buying a mac for maximal control over your machine. So ask yourself: are the people making a mistake by having different preferences from you, or are they actually making a mistake on their own terms?
Psyladine 4y ago
Read Blue Ocean by Kim & Mauborgne. What is "really good" is that what shortens the distance between the problem of the consumer and the solution. As an example, audiophiles might sneer at consumers buying "cheap" "digital" "crap" instead of having the good sense to appreciate what a high end speaker or vinyl system is capable of, but those consumers aren't upstream, they're trying to solve the issue of needing a sound system. People in the industry are for the most part audiophiles, so they're going to have an appreciation for things their consumer base is basically illiterate in. Still, the business is run on solving problems, and the problems of most are not the problems of the high-end user. we're solving problems, or solving really hard problems, but either way can't deceive ourselves if we're just trying to solve the problem of making ourselves money, or actually of providing value to a variable population of problem-havers.

gizmo 4y ago

You don't have to cynically exploit your customers just because that's what other businesses do. If you can make an excellent product that solves a real problem and charge a reasonable price for it you'll likely do pretty well. Sure, other people will become immensely successful by cheating or by gaming the system in some way. But what difference does that make? Just do your own thing.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
> gaming the system I think this is the point. Because the game is actually the psychology around why people buy shit. I can't make myself do that. For example. I can't ride the wave of hype because I don't believe its value is real or sustainable. Well a lot of excuse, right, that's why it's my trap.
- sometimeshuman 4y ago
  > I can't make myself do that. Then don't. Or maybe you subconsciously don't want to do the work or have no good ideas. That's OK. But I can't see how this cynical attitude serves you otherwise. As a reminder YC's mantra is "build something people want". There are plenty of now wealthy people on this forum that did that. Some never even had to do marketing because customers were so happy.
  - Existenceblinks 4y ago
    I don't get why they were so happy with avatar generator for example. I actually understand it's sort of fun. But $30 for that is a nope to me. This is why my mindset limits my idea space. I need to get out of that.

sargstuff 4y ago

long as it's legal/legitimate, does it really matter if can make enough $$$ to earn a living? nerf was last minute class project.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
It doesn't matter. But as I said, I can't make myself do it. I can't made up beuatiful words to describe pseudo values that I can't provide. For example, I don't believe in productivity app like timer that records many activity in a day, but people do really buy it I couldn't make myself believe .. like really? So when something is obviously good to sell, and I think it's dumb, I guess I can't make myself sell the thing to dumb people. Ah.. it's a trap.
- sargstuff 4y ago
  existenceblinks wrote: "... Ah it's a trap." Well, all the more reason to thing in terms of trees/heaps & not traditional loops/recursive functional loops. Let someone else handle the mark & sweep clean up.
  - Existenceblinks 4y ago
    Sounds like a GPT to me!
- fuzzfactor 4y ago
  Seems to me like you're not much of a consumer yourself. Me neither, I'm a producer. So I sell to other producers. Sometimes big ones. Then one call does it all. Yes it has to be good.
  - Existenceblinks 4y ago
    Yes, I found myself a minimal consumer and I think it affects my producer side because I have less clue why people why things.

agumonkey 4y ago

yeah we have to blur it out... your excellence can be sold but only to a few, the rest will want various degrees or simplicity, cost etc anything in that game requires a lot of planning to make something livable that can be sold at many groups over many years so you can finally get enough leverage to move the minds along some value axis

Existenceblinks 4y ago
I think most thing sold because of lust. Example: 1) avatar generator by ai 2) my local aunties bought iPhone Pro Max just to facebook and chat .. and of course taking pictures.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  This is part of the psychology/marketing leverage for sure, there's a lot more human traits that explain behavior.

graeme 4y ago

Here’s a quick tip: remove the word “bullshit” from your personality and assume that people aren’t morons. People obviously do do dumb things, and some stuff is obviously crap. But if you change perspectives a lot of stuff actually….makes sense? Like, looking at the world and seeing a bunch of bullshit is actually a flaw in your own thinking, not the world. Take fast food for example. Widely derided, clearly poisons the body, not the best taste, produces a lot of waste. More expensive than cooking. But, flip it around: * Standard experience —> you know exactly what you’re getting * Much cheaper than restaurant food * Much faster than restaurant or home cooked food * Tasty * Easy It’s something with obvious downsides but also obvious upsides. It isn’t obviously dumb. It is only obviously dumb if you decide the downsides outweigh the upsides and then ignore all the upsides. Which is flawed thinking. You can repeat this analysis and find that on their own terms most people mostly aren’t doing things that are totally irrational. Even something like a lottery ticket gives someone hope despite the clear negative EV. You can take that too far, but…. The point is if you think everything is bullshit, your analysis is probably crap. And merely allowing yourself to use the term bullshit rewards this sort of lazy, negative analysis. Whatever you sell doesn’t have to be the absolute best of all possible things. But it has to meet a need, and the vast bulk of stuff which sells does exactly that.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
Appreciate your effort. But I would say food is not a really good example. I can relate taste via tongue, it's something very understandable. I don't think I can trust bias(reasons) after bought something. > The point is if you think everything is bullshit, your analysis is probably crap. Yes, it is crap. Because as I say I most values I can't relate .. a lot of why > But it has to meet a need That's the problem. Most of the time I don't think they need it.
- graeme 4y ago
  Sure but that's an empathy problem. If you intend to sell anything to anyone you need to change your whole perspective. For example, say someone goes buys a mac because they think the software is pretty and they like having things managed. You can't argue they are mistaken because you could get a linux machine with freedom for much less. They don't want such a thing. Conversely, say someone buys a Linux machine because they like getting inexpensive tools and they enjoy fiddling with software. You can't say they are wrong because they could spend much less effort on computing by buying a mac. There are no mistakes in either choice if they align with preferences. Here's an example of a mistake: buying a linux machine for ease of use, or buying a mac for maximal control over your machine. So ask yourself: are the people making a mistake by having different preferences from you, or are they actually making a mistake on their own terms?

Psyladine 4y ago

Read Blue Ocean by Kim & Mauborgne. What is "really good" is that what shortens the distance between the problem of the consumer and the solution. As an example, audiophiles might sneer at consumers buying "cheap" "digital" "crap" instead of having the good sense to appreciate what a high end speaker or vinyl system is capable of, but those consumers aren't upstream, they're trying to solve the issue of needing a sound system. People in the industry are for the most part audiophiles, so they're going to have an appreciation for things their consumer base is basically illiterate in. Still, the business is run on solving problems, and the problems of most are not the problems of the high-end user. we're solving problems, or solving really hard problems, but either way can't deceive ourselves if we're just trying to solve the problem of making ourselves money, or actually of providing value to a variable population of problem-havers.