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This weekend I began to take a computer science course at the local community college. After the four hour class, in which the professor spent the first two ho

by viae 18y ago

This weekend I began to take a computer science course at the local community college. After the four hour class, in which the professor spent the first two hours talking about how accelerated the class was, and the 2nd two hours on how to install the JAVA SDK on Windows I immediately dropped the class. My decision was based on my personal findings that MIT, Berkeley, and Stanford's online offerings are superior even though I won't be able to interact with a mentor. While I'm happy that I'll be getting my $500 back (I think I'll put that money towards a cyclocross bike or Thule roof rack :cp), I'm appalled by the lack of accessibility to good mentorship at the community college level. Is my experience peculiar or is this pervasive? As an aside, the prof. also called the Windows CMD, Unix... not even "like" Unix. He said, "This is Unix." My head almost exploded. This was after he spent a good deal of time telling people there were lots of jobs in the Unix and Line-UX field...

jackchristopher 18y ago
Community colleges were designed to quickly train people for the post-war (WWII) economy. And since bureaucrats run them, you learn the industry demands...from yesterday. The students and teachers are there for "a better job"; No enthusiasm. And like any situation where people do things they don't want to, it sucks. And I think that is the real value of top universities, Y Combinator, or any great place. You get to do cool work with people who care about the same things you do. Find a way to emulate that. And I'm not trying to be negative about community college, or college in general. But if you do choose to go back; Use college, don't let it use you. And that's true for life in general as well. But ambitious people find a way; I'm self-taught. And while that would be scary to many people. Doing anything new is. And I feel alive.
- gregwebs 18y ago
  I don't think you should be bashing things you don't know much about. It is one thing to point out that the quality of instruction and general level of interest of students is lower than at Universities. It is another to paint broad inaccurate strokes, pretend to understand their mission and label the people that run them as bureaucrats. There are many administrators, teachers, and students at community colleges that are interested and passionate about what they do.
  - silencio 18y ago
    THANK you. I went to a CC because I dropped out of high school a couple years early with my GED (would have gone completely nuts if I didn't), and there was no way I would get accepted to the top tier universities I wanted to go to in that way. I've also taken classes at both 2 and 4 year universities throughout my middle/high school years. All I can say is that there are some awful teachers like the one above saying DOS is Unix and such complete nonsense, but I've also come across some of the most amazing teachers that even my now-in-4-year-universities friends from high school wish they had for some of the classes we share. Yes, the level of education is not the same, but for the general classes, it's not so different, and sometimes can be a unique and nice experience. Plus, you can transfer, and those classes can count towards your degree. Not everyone is in a CC to get a better job, a lot of people end up transferring to such "top" universities like UCLA, UC Berkeley, Stanford, USC and the like (is it obvious I live in California? :) ) Lastly, none of this is stopping me from supplementing my education on my own. There are some topics that are rarely taught in many places (like, say, Mac/iPhone programming) I'm interested in. I would hope that's the case with anyone and everyone, not just people involved in top universities and Y Combinator :p
  - jackchristopher 18y ago
    I went to community college. My points: 1) They were made to quickly train people for post-war jobs. 2) Being government run makes them especially bureaucratic. And because of that they are slow to change. They teach you the outmoded industry demands. (A.k.a classes on Java/C = You'll program Windows. Python/Ruby = Web apps). And I'm not saying those languages are not useful. But top colleges have this problem too. It's a society-wide problem actually. Our knowledge is increasing and changing things faster than people can keep up. But opening up courses and materials helps. Not to mention the effect of the net in general. 3) The original purpose of CCs influences their operation today. And they've had to shift purposes. And it's hard to change any organization; just like people. But not only is are CCs larger in scale but politicians run them. The problem they're trying to solve changed...a few times. By my quick account: How do we do quick job training post-war? How do we restructure for incoming baby-boomers? What do we do with their children in the age of the internet? And that's probably not how they framed them. But I don't have enough time to come up with better questions. 4) Enthusiasm is low. The standards to get in are low; For teachers and students. And while I forgot about transfer students, I think they add to my point not detract from it. Those people want to blow through CCs. But I think you agree with me about student and teacher motivation in general. Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives; Whether before college, during college, or after it. Most don't even know on their deathbeds. And those who even ask the question, end up settling way too early; It's a hard problem. And you're supposed to figure it out before 17? And I was advocating self-learning; Not going to any college. Whether they're good according to US Weekly's algorithm or not; I'm the last defender of the university. But I did recommend emulating what the most valuable part of those places; Doing stuff with people who actually want to do it. Side Note: I thought my post was balanced; I don't intend to ever write negatively. Thank you for the feedback. You forced me to explain myself the long way. This post is sloppily written too.
gojomo 18y ago
I'm appalled by the lack of accessibility to good mentorship at the community college level. Is my experience peculiar or is this pervasive? If you wanted to tackle this deficit with an online matching service, the domain onlinecoursementors.com is available! (Actually, I'd recommend a more figurative domain name, but you get the idea.)
DocSavage 18y ago
Community college courses are definitely hit-and-miss but I'm a strong believer in their utility. You just have to make sure you pick wisely. Arts education is a steal. You can find classes with reasonably successful faculty. I'm currently taking screenwriting at De Anza and enjoyed short fiction classes with Bob Bausch (http://www.robertbausch.org/ http://www.robertbausch.org/) back in Virginia. With workshop-style classes, there can be wider variation in talent-levels and enthusiasm yet not be a show-stopper in helping you move forward with your skills. These faculty can also be very accessible for personal review of your work. Comp sci/programming is another story. It'd be too frustrating to take courses at the CC level because of the pace, although even here, I can see a problem-based course accommodating different levels of skill and interest. The availability of all these internet courses will make a dramatic impact to education. I would have killed to have access to this stuff back in high school. Makes me wonder what impact it might have on the community colleges, especially if states force reuse of exemplary open material.

by viae 18y ago

jackchristopher 18y ago

Community colleges were designed to quickly train people for the post-war (WWII) economy. And since bureaucrats run them, you learn the industry demands...from yesterday. The students and teachers are there for "a better job"; No enthusiasm. And like any situation where people do things they don't want to, it sucks. And I think that is the real value of top universities, Y Combinator, or any great place. You get to do cool work with people who care about the same things you do. Find a way to emulate that. And I'm not trying to be negative about community college, or college in general. But if you do choose to go back; Use college, don't let it use you. And that's true for life in general as well. But ambitious people find a way; I'm self-taught. And while that would be scary to many people. Doing anything new is. And I feel alive.

gregwebs 18y ago
I don't think you should be bashing things you don't know much about. It is one thing to point out that the quality of instruction and general level of interest of students is lower than at Universities. It is another to paint broad inaccurate strokes, pretend to understand their mission and label the people that run them as bureaucrats. There are many administrators, teachers, and students at community colleges that are interested and passionate about what they do.
- silencio 18y ago
  THANK you. I went to a CC because I dropped out of high school a couple years early with my GED (would have gone completely nuts if I didn't), and there was no way I would get accepted to the top tier universities I wanted to go to in that way. I've also taken classes at both 2 and 4 year universities throughout my middle/high school years. All I can say is that there are some awful teachers like the one above saying DOS is Unix and such complete nonsense, but I've also come across some of the most amazing teachers that even my now-in-4-year-universities friends from high school wish they had for some of the classes we share. Yes, the level of education is not the same, but for the general classes, it's not so different, and sometimes can be a unique and nice experience. Plus, you can transfer, and those classes can count towards your degree. Not everyone is in a CC to get a better job, a lot of people end up transferring to such "top" universities like UCLA, UC Berkeley, Stanford, USC and the like (is it obvious I live in California? :) ) Lastly, none of this is stopping me from supplementing my education on my own. There are some topics that are rarely taught in many places (like, say, Mac/iPhone programming) I'm interested in. I would hope that's the case with anyone and everyone, not just people involved in top universities and Y Combinator :p
- jackchristopher 18y ago
  I went to community college. My points: 1) They were made to quickly train people for post-war jobs. 2) Being government run makes them especially bureaucratic. And because of that they are slow to change. They teach you the outmoded industry demands. (A.k.a classes on Java/C = You'll program Windows. Python/Ruby = Web apps). And I'm not saying those languages are not useful. But top colleges have this problem too. It's a society-wide problem actually. Our knowledge is increasing and changing things faster than people can keep up. But opening up courses and materials helps. Not to mention the effect of the net in general. 3) The original purpose of CCs influences their operation today. And they've had to shift purposes. And it's hard to change any organization; just like people. But not only is are CCs larger in scale but politicians run them. The problem they're trying to solve changed...a few times. By my quick account: How do we do quick job training post-war? How do we restructure for incoming baby-boomers? What do we do with their children in the age of the internet? And that's probably not how they framed them. But I don't have enough time to come up with better questions. 4) Enthusiasm is low. The standards to get in are low; For teachers and students. And while I forgot about transfer students, I think they add to my point not detract from it. Those people want to blow through CCs. But I think you agree with me about student and teacher motivation in general. Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives; Whether before college, during college, or after it. Most don't even know on their deathbeds. And those who even ask the question, end up settling way too early; It's a hard problem. And you're supposed to figure it out before 17? And I was advocating self-learning; Not going to any college. Whether they're good according to US Weekly's algorithm or not; I'm the last defender of the university. But I did recommend emulating what the most valuable part of those places; Doing stuff with people who actually want to do it. Side Note: I thought my post was balanced; I don't intend to ever write negatively. Thank you for the feedback. You forced me to explain myself the long way. This post is sloppily written too.

gojomo 18y ago

I'm appalled by the lack of accessibility to good mentorship at the community college level. Is my experience peculiar or is this pervasive? If you wanted to tackle this deficit with an online matching service, the domain onlinecoursementors.com is available! (Actually, I'd recommend a more figurative domain name, but you get the idea.)

DocSavage 18y ago

Community college courses are definitely hit-and-miss but I'm a strong believer in their utility. You just have to make sure you pick wisely. Arts education is a steal. You can find classes with reasonably successful faculty. I'm currently taking screenwriting at De Anza and enjoyed short fiction classes with Bob Bausch (http://www.robertbausch.org/ http://www.robertbausch.org/) back in Virginia. With workshop-style classes, there can be wider variation in talent-levels and enthusiasm yet not be a show-stopper in helping you move forward with your skills. These faculty can also be very accessible for personal review of your work. Comp sci/programming is another story. It'd be too frustrating to take courses at the CC level because of the pace, although even here, I can see a problem-based course accommodating different levels of skill and interest. The availability of all these internet courses will make a dramatic impact to education. I would have killed to have access to this stuff back in high school. Makes me wonder what impact it might have on the community colleges, especially if states force reuse of exemplary open material.