4 ms·

But there's the other side isn't there? the one where you have no choice but to have a car, where every road is 4 lanes, where's there's no pedestrian crossings

But there's the other side isn't there? the one where you have no choice but to have a car, where every road is 4 lanes, where's there's no pedestrian crossings, no pavements? I haven't had a car in over a decade, I don't want to have to pay a mandatory car tax that will cost me far more per year than public transport, parking, petrol, insurance, space, I don't miss sitting in traffic that will grow the more roads are added. Just having public transport that can get you everywhere would reduce a tremendous amount of burden, instead of sacrificing every bit of road to cars, make room for public transport and pedestrians, plan for it. No doubt we will always need cars, but they shouldn't be mandatory and we should have public spaces that aren't cut through with car parks and roads and endless, endless traffic

throwaway4aday 4y ago
> they shouldn't be mandatory The same goes for public transit. That's the central argument, don't force other people to live the way you live. Everyone should have a choice in how they conduct their lives.
- lm28469 4y ago
  That's a teenager's point of view, you can't live in a dense community and say "I can do what I want because I'm free", every single of your action have consequences, on you, and on the community. Of course other people can force you to live a certain way, that's like the whole basis of living in societies, we come up with rules and follow them, these rules change all the time
  - revolvingocelot 4y ago
    >That's a teenager's point of view But haven't you read these well-upvoted opinions? It's the right of the adult to do whatever they want; the student-lifestyle of public transit is the position of the grubby, naive, cooperative youngster. Once you have the resources, you seal yourself away in your bubble -- preferentially ICE-based, of course -- and Become Traffic. It's the culturally superior option, as everybody's known since the 50s, and we here on HN are superior. Our paychecks tell us so. The public transit option, ill-funded as it is, will never be popular, because as sarcastic as I might seem here, I'm also simply describing reality.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    > you can't live in a dense community Not everyone does, 99% of the world exists outside of cities. You can't apply urban reasoning to the majority of the world. Sure, all actions have consequences but that doesn't mean you need a policeman to supervise every step you take. The only reason societies function is because individuals decide for themselves that they will abide by societal norms. The laws enacted by societies are a tiny fraction of the rules we use to govern our behaviour and none of it would be any use if people simply decided to ignore those rules, hence why crime still exists, sometimes people just DGAF and do what they want for their own reasons. It's pretty funny being accused of having an immature viewpoint when you are literally appealing to authority to solve all of your problems. Adults need to solve their own.
- secretsatan 4y ago
  That's be fine except it's public transport that doesn't get the love car culture does and people get mightily upset that we should even think of improving it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- zozbot234 4y ago
  There are viable alternatives to public transit in dense cities, that don't require a car centric lifestyle. Scooters, electric mopeds, or even low speed vehicles that give you the same privacy and comfort as a car. It just doesn't make sense to use the exact same vehicle in a dense urban neighborhood as you'd use for a cross country road trip.
- _visgean 4y ago
  > don't force other people to live the way you live ok but you are forcing the consequences of your way of living onto others. I have to pay for all your ridicoulous infrastracture, i face the risk of being killed by your 2 ton monster..
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    So? People who don't use public transit pay for its infrastructure too.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
There’s also the side we have, which is a mixture. I don’t think a polar universe is the outcome on the table.

throwaway4aday 4y ago

> they shouldn't be mandatory The same goes for public transit. That's the central argument, don't force other people to live the way you live. Everyone should have a choice in how they conduct their lives.

lm28469 4y ago
That's a teenager's point of view, you can't live in a dense community and say "I can do what I want because I'm free", every single of your action have consequences, on you, and on the community. Of course other people can force you to live a certain way, that's like the whole basis of living in societies, we come up with rules and follow them, these rules change all the time
- revolvingocelot 4y ago
  >That's a teenager's point of view But haven't you read these well-upvoted opinions? It's the right of the adult to do whatever they want; the student-lifestyle of public transit is the position of the grubby, naive, cooperative youngster. Once you have the resources, you seal yourself away in your bubble -- preferentially ICE-based, of course -- and Become Traffic. It's the culturally superior option, as everybody's known since the 50s, and we here on HN are superior. Our paychecks tell us so. The public transit option, ill-funded as it is, will never be popular, because as sarcastic as I might seem here, I'm also simply describing reality.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  > you can't live in a dense community Not everyone does, 99% of the world exists outside of cities. You can't apply urban reasoning to the majority of the world. Sure, all actions have consequences but that doesn't mean you need a policeman to supervise every step you take. The only reason societies function is because individuals decide for themselves that they will abide by societal norms. The laws enacted by societies are a tiny fraction of the rules we use to govern our behaviour and none of it would be any use if people simply decided to ignore those rules, hence why crime still exists, sometimes people just DGAF and do what they want for their own reasons. It's pretty funny being accused of having an immature viewpoint when you are literally appealing to authority to solve all of your problems. Adults need to solve their own.
secretsatan 4y ago
That's be fine except it's public transport that doesn't get the love car culture does and people get mightily upset that we should even think of improving it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
zozbot234 4y ago
There are viable alternatives to public transit in dense cities, that don't require a car centric lifestyle. Scooters, electric mopeds, or even low speed vehicles that give you the same privacy and comfort as a car. It just doesn't make sense to use the exact same vehicle in a dense urban neighborhood as you'd use for a cross country road trip.
_visgean 4y ago
> don't force other people to live the way you live ok but you are forcing the consequences of your way of living onto others. I have to pay for all your ridicoulous infrastracture, i face the risk of being killed by your 2 ton monster..
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  So? People who don't use public transit pay for its infrastructure too.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

There’s also the side we have, which is a mixture. I don’t think a polar universe is the outcome on the table.