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Generational divide here. I used to work at Cacao coffeehouse in west LA in the 90s. Only took cash. Also, basically made no money other than tips. I moved to N

Generational divide here. I used to work at Cacao coffeehouse in west LA in the 90s. Only took cash. Also, basically made no money other than tips. I moved to NYC and waited tables where there was no pay whatsoever other than tips. That was around when standard tipping went from 15% to 20%. Having worked in the service industry, I usually tip 25-30%, per drink or per meal. But here's the relevant point: When I encounter a place that doesn't allow tipping, I still want to tip, and make sure to tip, because it's for the worker. I absolutely loathe the new system that's come into trendy restaurants in Seattle where gratuity is supposedly included. That's a skinflint way for a restaurant to raise their prices and assure you that their workers are being paid, without you as the customer having any say (or direct contact) with the workers. You may put up QR code menus and try to isolate the service staff from the customers, and eliminate tipping, but does that make happier employees? Does it make happier customers? Tipping serves several purposes. One of them is to get the employees to give customers who tip well better service. Sometimes at the expense of an extra ounce from a whisky bottle, sometimes just with more personal care. The insertion of the management into the situation - trying to say it's good for customers and employees - strikes me as a very false, self-serving line of bullshit. And from everyone I know in the service industry, it seems like it quickly turns into a racket against them as well. My prediction is that by 2025, places that eliminated tipping will be seen as just as infamous as any of the scammy disruptors of the tech industry in the 2010s; the practice of banning tips will be seen as disreputable, and life will return to its natural equilibrium where customers pay extra for good service.

franciscop 4y ago
Why do you expect as a customer to have anything to say about a worker getting paid? Do you follow your shoes manufacturing process making sure everyone in the chain is paid properly? I expect the employer to pay properly, otherwise for the employee to take their case to their union/court. This concept/way of thinking seems so strange as a non-American. > My prediction is that by 2025 [...] You do know that for the rest of the world, the CURRENT system of needing tips to make up the pay that the employer does not pay is seen as disreputable, part of the infamous scammy lawless American low-pay healthcare-less work landscape, right? Employers are supposed to pay livable wages, not let random customers make up for it.
- noduerme 4y ago
  I think it's the customer's responsibility to know whether the person directly in front of them is being paid, or relying on the customer to pay. If you go into a strip club in whatever country you are in, do you expect to get a lap dance without tipping the girl? Because she's in the union or being paid by the strip club? Probably not. In some states in America, like New York, waiters are basically like strippers. If you go there, you should understand that the service costs extra. You wouldn't go into a Buddhist temple in Thailand and not leave some change at the door. You wouldn't go climb Mt Everest and not give a few dollars to the sherpa who carried your bag. So don't go to a restaurant in New York City and screw the wait staff. Budget it into your travels. This is a plain rule for traveling anywhere.
  - franciscop 4y ago
    [deleted; obvious trolling deserves no answers]
    - noduerme 4y ago
      Did you ever go to a prostitute? Do you expect her to be paid by the establishment? You cannot simply say that because you are ignorant of the customs in some place, or you would never go to such a place, that people should not have to learn and abide by the customs if they do go to them. As with prosties, so with New York restaurants. As far as leaving coins outside temples... perhaps it was a local contribution thing, but it seemed like the right thing to do.
      - Adverblessly 4y ago
        > Did you ever go to a prostitute? Do you expect her to be paid by the establishment? I haven't, but if you asked me if I think service workers should be paid more like regular salaried workers or more like prostitutes, I'd pick the former over the latter.
        noduerme 4y ago

franciscop 4y ago

Why do you expect as a customer to have anything to say about a worker getting paid? Do you follow your shoes manufacturing process making sure everyone in the chain is paid properly? I expect the employer to pay properly, otherwise for the employee to take their case to their union/court. This concept/way of thinking seems so strange as a non-American. > My prediction is that by 2025 [...] You do know that for the rest of the world, the CURRENT system of needing tips to make up the pay that the employer does not pay is seen as disreputable, part of the infamous scammy lawless American low-pay healthcare-less work landscape, right? Employers are supposed to pay livable wages, not let random customers make up for it.

noduerme 4y ago
I think it's the customer's responsibility to know whether the person directly in front of them is being paid, or relying on the customer to pay. If you go into a strip club in whatever country you are in, do you expect to get a lap dance without tipping the girl? Because she's in the union or being paid by the strip club? Probably not. In some states in America, like New York, waiters are basically like strippers. If you go there, you should understand that the service costs extra. You wouldn't go into a Buddhist temple in Thailand and not leave some change at the door. You wouldn't go climb Mt Everest and not give a few dollars to the sherpa who carried your bag. So don't go to a restaurant in New York City and screw the wait staff. Budget it into your travels. This is a plain rule for traveling anywhere.
- franciscop 4y ago
  [deleted; obvious trolling deserves no answers]
  - noduerme 4y ago
    Did you ever go to a prostitute? Do you expect her to be paid by the establishment? You cannot simply say that because you are ignorant of the customs in some place, or you would never go to such a place, that people should not have to learn and abide by the customs if they do go to them. As with prosties, so with New York restaurants. As far as leaving coins outside temples... perhaps it was a local contribution thing, but it seemed like the right thing to do.
    - Adverblessly 4y ago
      > Did you ever go to a prostitute? Do you expect her to be paid by the establishment? I haven't, but if you asked me if I think service workers should be paid more like regular salaried workers or more like prostitutes, I'd pick the former over the latter.
      - noduerme 4y ago