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I think the trick here is going to be who you decide to market to. Right now, it looks like the target audience is really small, tech-savvy start ups (most lik

by Skywing 15y ago

I think the trick here is going to be who you decide to market to. Right now, it looks like the target audience is really small, tech-savvy start ups (most likely those start ups out in San Francisco that the grove.io team can directly market to, etc). That's probably fine but it seems like a rather small audience. So alright then, the audience is tech-savvy start ups located anywhere. This might be tricky because now you have to convince the tech-savvy people to quit hosting their own IRC server, or to add a new IRC server to their list of servers that they already frequent. I already run my own UnrealIRC daemon, on Linode, for $20/mo with however many users it can handle. I have a logger bot that logs chat to a nice looking web page, and obviously IRC supports channel access control out of the box. Plus, now I have a Linode server to play on. So, I don't think I would do grove.io for my own start up. So, then maybe an easier audience to market this to would be tech-savvy start ups that are too busy to mess with hosting their own (probably a good portion of them) or do not like the other free servers. They'd probably buy this, but you have to wonder why they're not using IRC already (do they really want it or need it?). You could try targeting non tech savvy start ups, but then you have to figure out how to speak their language and explain why they need a chat service when they already have email, or something. This is probably why Campfire stayed away from making the IRC connection. I have to admit that I feel like this is a bit like trying to sell ice to an Eskimo, or whatever. Do start ups have this problem? I'm not knocking the service. I'd love to be offering a service like that. Heck, I do offer an IRC service but I just do not get paid for it. Perhaps I'm just jealous that I did not attempt this type of service myself. :) I love the idea and best of luck!

ericabiz 15y ago
"I already run my own UnrealIRC daemon, on Linode, for $20/mo with however many users it can handle." Then I would argue you're not the target market. I'm a tech company CEO. I have WAY better things to do than set up an IRC server, even though my background is Linux system administration. My employees (we have 8 people currently; hiring #9) also have better things to do (like, you know, features our customers want :) So we use Hipchat. And Hipchat rocks. Everyone on our team loves it. (We actually tried grove first, but it just wasn't mature enough for our needs--Hipchat has Mac OS, Windows, web, Android, AND iPhone apps, and we're all on different platforms, so that works out well.) When you're paying developers $$$, you don't want them to be setting up IRC servers. Better to use a Hipchat or a Grove.io and be up and running in 5 minutes with clients on every device. For us, it's well worth the few $ a month to have one less thing to set up and maintain.
- sawyer 15y ago
  I call balogna; it probably takes longer to go through the purchase / registration process for a service like this than it does to fire up your own IRC server on one of your available boxes.
  - sgrove 15y ago
    If you know the available packages. And get really lucky. For most people who haven't done it much before, will have to do some research first, and probably end up shaving yaks for a bit. Grove (I'm honored, by the way) seems like a nice middleground. Make the busy founders happy (easy, no maintenance), make the devs happy (irc).
  - Xylakant 15y ago
    Actually, we're a tech (consulting) company and we don't even have our own box any more. We do have access to some fully managed boxes, but alas, grove.io is cheaper than having an admin set up and maintain an irc server for us. We joined the moment the offering came up.
- phzbOx 15y ago
  "When you're paying developers $$$, you don't want them to be setting up IRC servers." Fair enough but still if it takes 1 hour to set it up vs paying 50$*12. (But I get your point, that's why I said I found it a bit risky in another post.. that's the developers mentality vs the CEO's one.)
  - bitops 15y ago
    You are forgetting to factor in maintenance costs, so yes, absolutely the developers perspective.
  - antoncohen 15y ago
    I don't think you can realistically setup an IRC server in an hour, at least not your first time, not with SSL, NickServ, ChanServ, etc. It will probably take more than an hour just to pick an IRC server and find the documentation. Almost all IRC servers were designed to run public IRC networks, each public IRC network has forked and re-forked the original IRCd from 1988. They tend to lack features that are expected of online services these days, e.g., user accounts and access controls. You can usually set a server-wide password, and channel keywords, but that's different than having individual usernames and passwords, with individual access control to channels. So then you need a NickServ and ChanServ, which are separate from the IRC daemon. Then the logging bot, and the web archive of the logging, and access control to the web archive. And a web client so you can easily invite first-timers into a discussion. It's way more than an hours work. Then you are paying $20/month to Linode, and someone has to maintain it with security updates, and backups, and documentation on how to redo all the configuration. That's a lot of time when you could just pay $50/month to Grove. $50/month is one regular coffee a day, it's not much money.

by Skywing 15y ago

ericabiz 15y ago

"I already run my own UnrealIRC daemon, on Linode, for $20/mo with however many users it can handle." Then I would argue you're not the target market. I'm a tech company CEO. I have WAY better things to do than set up an IRC server, even though my background is Linux system administration. My employees (we have 8 people currently; hiring #9) also have better things to do (like, you know, features our customers want :) So we use Hipchat. And Hipchat rocks. Everyone on our team loves it. (We actually tried grove first, but it just wasn't mature enough for our needs--Hipchat has Mac OS, Windows, web, Android, AND iPhone apps, and we're all on different platforms, so that works out well.) When you're paying developers $$$, you don't want them to be setting up IRC servers. Better to use a Hipchat or a Grove.io and be up and running in 5 minutes with clients on every device. For us, it's well worth the few $ a month to have one less thing to set up and maintain.

sawyer 15y ago
I call balogna; it probably takes longer to go through the purchase / registration process for a service like this than it does to fire up your own IRC server on one of your available boxes.
- sgrove 15y ago
  If you know the available packages. And get really lucky. For most people who haven't done it much before, will have to do some research first, and probably end up shaving yaks for a bit. Grove (I'm honored, by the way) seems like a nice middleground. Make the busy founders happy (easy, no maintenance), make the devs happy (irc).
- Xylakant 15y ago
  Actually, we're a tech (consulting) company and we don't even have our own box any more. We do have access to some fully managed boxes, but alas, grove.io is cheaper than having an admin set up and maintain an irc server for us. We joined the moment the offering came up.
phzbOx 15y ago
"When you're paying developers $$$, you don't want them to be setting up IRC servers." Fair enough but still if it takes 1 hour to set it up vs paying 50$*12. (But I get your point, that's why I said I found it a bit risky in another post.. that's the developers mentality vs the CEO's one.)
- bitops 15y ago
  You are forgetting to factor in maintenance costs, so yes, absolutely the developers perspective.
- antoncohen 15y ago
  I don't think you can realistically setup an IRC server in an hour, at least not your first time, not with SSL, NickServ, ChanServ, etc. It will probably take more than an hour just to pick an IRC server and find the documentation. Almost all IRC servers were designed to run public IRC networks, each public IRC network has forked and re-forked the original IRCd from 1988. They tend to lack features that are expected of online services these days, e.g., user accounts and access controls. You can usually set a server-wide password, and channel keywords, but that's different than having individual usernames and passwords, with individual access control to channels. So then you need a NickServ and ChanServ, which are separate from the IRC daemon. Then the logging bot, and the web archive of the logging, and access control to the web archive. And a web client so you can easily invite first-timers into a discussion. It's way more than an hours work. Then you are paying $20/month to Linode, and someone has to maintain it with security updates, and backups, and documentation on how to redo all the configuration. That's a lot of time when you could just pay $50/month to Grove. $50/month is one regular coffee a day, it's not much money.