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Do you say this to all addicts? There are countless reasons people make bad choices: peer pressure, to calm anxiety, dealing with depression, and yeah, sometim

Do you say this to all addicts? There are countless reasons people make bad choices: peer pressure, to calm anxiety, dealing with depression, and yeah, sometimes, abusive parents. But you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance and saying "well, sucks to be you", and taking the high ground. Good for you, it must be great up there never having made a bad choice. The moment somebody makes a poor choice does not mean we should then insist the game is over for them and it's their fault. That doesn't help them make better choices in future. Quitting smoking is incredibly hard. I've done it multiple times sometimes for years at a time - that's how hard it is - and you will never understand it unless you've personally suffered from addiction yourself. Do you think the attendees at Alcoholic Anonymous who stand up and say "I'm an alcoholic and haven't had a drink in 25 years" are being absurd, or speaking to a truth about addiction? Why do you think smokers have an easier time of it? I've not smoked in almost 6 years today. In a poor context, in a poor moment, I could be back in there in a heartbeat. It's not insufferable - I've suffered it - but you clearly and blatantly will never understand it. So please, get off the high horse, accept everybody makes poor choices in life, some of those can lead to a very tough addiction, and addiction can lead to poor health outcomes that are incredibly hard to resolve despite wanting to make changes for the better. A little more empathy could serve you well.

Dalewyn 4y ago
Adults are responsible for themselves, and smoking is absolutely a choice regardless addiction status. If you can't control yourself and be responsible, you shouldn't be in the military let alone manning a submarine.
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  I kindly suggest that you google "Is addiction a choice?" and "Is smoking addictive?" and learn a few things before taking such an absolutely absurd high-ground devoid of empathy or experience of either subject from the perspective of the person addicted to smoking. If the bar for joining the military or manning a submarine is that you had never made a poor choice in your adult life, it would be impossible to recruit. All humans make poor choices, and for all sorts of reasons. Smoking is just one example that many people - yourself included - seem quick to condemn without understanding.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    I'm overly simplifying, but if policy is to not smoke and you can't (or refuse to) follow orders, you're out. Dishonorable discharge. Adults are not children, much less military personnel. Smoking is a choice and you are responsible for your choices. "It's an addiction." is a lazy, irresponsible excuse and escape.
    - dns_snek 4y ago
      You're confusing new choices with consequences of previous ones. Taking up smoking when you're fully aware that your job prohibits you from smoking is a choice and you're right - "It's an addiction" would be a poor excuse. Quoting the context from a few replies ago: > You don't have to ban smokers to ban smoking on a sub. Smokers don't have to smoke, they merely choose to do so. Being asked to quit an addiction on demand is completely different, you don't "merely choose" to smoke every day. That's what makes it so difficult to escape addiction, it's not merely a choice like what you're going to have for lunch. Once you're addicted, your body psychologically and physically compels you to do it. Would you say that giving up your passwords under the threat of being beaten with a $5 wrench is merely a choice? Addiction is like that, but it's your brain holding the $5 wrench.
      - yencabulator 4y ago
        Do you "get asked" to serve on a submarine, or do you apply to serve on a submarine? What next, are you going to obligate the military to provide all the alcohol and hard drugs any addict may desire in the next 6 months? There's so many reasons you get disqualified from serving in certain positions in military. Being addicted is just one of them.
        dns_snek 4y ago
        Please don't shift the goal posts, the argument I was responding to said that continuing to smoke is merely a choice. I'm not arguing that smoking should be allowed on submarines or anything of the sort, just dispelling this one specific falsehood that attempts to paint addicts as lazy or otherwise inferior just because they can't wake up one day and quit their addictive behavior.
aliqot 4y ago
> you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance smokers are not victims of circumstance.
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  Yes, they are.
  - aliqot 4y ago
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe someone coming in contact with second hand smoke is a victim of circumstance, but someone doing the actual smoking did so on their own free will.
    - PaulRobinson 4y ago
      I'll repeat this again in the hope you'll reflect on it: your statement suggests you do not understand addiction. Addiction subverts free will. Smoking is no less a serious form of addiction than any other you can imagine, the only difference is the consequence to other people is curtailed in comparison. Agree to disagree as much as you want: you come across as plain ignorant in the eyes of anybody who understands the issue.

Dalewyn 4y ago

Adults are responsible for themselves, and smoking is absolutely a choice regardless addiction status. If you can't control yourself and be responsible, you shouldn't be in the military let alone manning a submarine.

PaulRobinson 4y ago
I kindly suggest that you google "Is addiction a choice?" and "Is smoking addictive?" and learn a few things before taking such an absolutely absurd high-ground devoid of empathy or experience of either subject from the perspective of the person addicted to smoking. If the bar for joining the military or manning a submarine is that you had never made a poor choice in your adult life, it would be impossible to recruit. All humans make poor choices, and for all sorts of reasons. Smoking is just one example that many people - yourself included - seem quick to condemn without understanding.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  I'm overly simplifying, but if policy is to not smoke and you can't (or refuse to) follow orders, you're out. Dishonorable discharge. Adults are not children, much less military personnel. Smoking is a choice and you are responsible for your choices. "It's an addiction." is a lazy, irresponsible excuse and escape.
  - dns_snek 4y ago
    You're confusing new choices with consequences of previous ones. Taking up smoking when you're fully aware that your job prohibits you from smoking is a choice and you're right - "It's an addiction" would be a poor excuse. Quoting the context from a few replies ago: > You don't have to ban smokers to ban smoking on a sub. Smokers don't have to smoke, they merely choose to do so. Being asked to quit an addiction on demand is completely different, you don't "merely choose" to smoke every day. That's what makes it so difficult to escape addiction, it's not merely a choice like what you're going to have for lunch. Once you're addicted, your body psychologically and physically compels you to do it. Would you say that giving up your passwords under the threat of being beaten with a $5 wrench is merely a choice? Addiction is like that, but it's your brain holding the $5 wrench.
    - yencabulator 4y ago
      Do you "get asked" to serve on a submarine, or do you apply to serve on a submarine? What next, are you going to obligate the military to provide all the alcohol and hard drugs any addict may desire in the next 6 months? There's so many reasons you get disqualified from serving in certain positions in military. Being addicted is just one of them.
      - dns_snek 4y ago
        Please don't shift the goal posts, the argument I was responding to said that continuing to smoke is merely a choice. I'm not arguing that smoking should be allowed on submarines or anything of the sort, just dispelling this one specific falsehood that attempts to paint addicts as lazy or otherwise inferior just because they can't wake up one day and quit their addictive behavior.

aliqot 4y ago

> you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance smokers are not victims of circumstance.

PaulRobinson 4y ago
Yes, they are.
- aliqot 4y ago
  We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe someone coming in contact with second hand smoke is a victim of circumstance, but someone doing the actual smoking did so on their own free will.
  - PaulRobinson 4y ago
    I'll repeat this again in the hope you'll reflect on it: your statement suggests you do not understand addiction. Addiction subverts free will. Smoking is no less a serious form of addiction than any other you can imagine, the only difference is the consequence to other people is curtailed in comparison. Agree to disagree as much as you want: you come across as plain ignorant in the eyes of anybody who understands the issue.