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I'll get downvoted to shit for this but the data for Japan's birth rate over time shows the decline setting in precisely when women were given freedom there. Th

by hd4 4y ago

I'll get downvoted to shit for this but the data for Japan's birth rate over time shows the decline setting in precisely when women were given freedom there. The cause/effect couldn't be more obvious, I feel like we're just avoiding the elephant in the room in these threads because it's politically unpalatable to state these truths nowadays. (The same is the case elsewhere, this isn't a strictly Japanese trend)

wikfwikf 4y ago
Firstly, so that I can understand the strength of the correlation, can you pinpoint when "women were given freedom there" and what that consisted of? Secondly, regardless of the cause of the lowered birth rate, do you agree that freedom for women is a fundamental and inalienable right, and that the problem is how society should advance so that birth rates and family formation go back up without rolling back freedon?
mschuster91 4y ago
Surprise: As soon as women get the freedom to not be broodmares but their own persons (i.e. they are allowed to work, live alone, have bank accounts, use contraception and divorce abusive husbands), they don't have kids because having kids is a physically and mentally exhausting effort, not to mention medically risky even in a developed country (for example, Italy has 2/100k births fatality rate, while the US has 19/100k). Now look where the US (and parts of Europe) are heading towards, with bans on contraception being openly discussed (e.g. with the recent Supreme Court decision that hinted at a reversal of the Griswold case), or access to abortion being made difficult more and more (e.g. Germany, where you have a limited-ish right to abortion, but good luck finding a practice in rural areas such as Lower Bavaria)... it's straight back to female slavery. If societies want children, they could and should encourage people to have them. Not leave them with no choice. And for what it's worth my s/o and I would like to have children, but rents and general expenses have been insane before covid hit, and now with the Russian war it's gone even worse.
georgyo 4y ago
Are you suggesting that women should be forced to be house wifes and baby makers? Or maybe Japan should go full Handmaids Tale? It isn't pointed out because removing freedom is not an option. We have evolved beyond such primitive ways.
- knewter 4y ago
  Lol we just went through global lockdowns and most of the population was forced to have an at-best unhelpful injection in order to participate in the economy
dsq 4y ago
Women's education has the strongest correlation with declining births per woman. Glibally, not just Japan.
bryanlarsen 4y ago
Japan is an excellent counter-point for your argument. In practice, Japanese women have far less freedom than other countries -- if they don't quit their job when they have babies, they are fired. So why does Japan have such a low birth rate if women have less freedom than other western countries?

by hd4 4y ago

wikfwikf 4y ago

Firstly, so that I can understand the strength of the correlation, can you pinpoint when "women were given freedom there" and what that consisted of? Secondly, regardless of the cause of the lowered birth rate, do you agree that freedom for women is a fundamental and inalienable right, and that the problem is how society should advance so that birth rates and family formation go back up without rolling back freedon?

mschuster91 4y ago

Surprise: As soon as women get the freedom to not be broodmares but their own persons (i.e. they are allowed to work, live alone, have bank accounts, use contraception and divorce abusive husbands), they don't have kids because having kids is a physically and mentally exhausting effort, not to mention medically risky even in a developed country (for example, Italy has 2/100k births fatality rate, while the US has 19/100k). Now look where the US (and parts of Europe) are heading towards, with bans on contraception being openly discussed (e.g. with the recent Supreme Court decision that hinted at a reversal of the Griswold case), or access to abortion being made difficult more and more (e.g. Germany, where you have a limited-ish right to abortion, but good luck finding a practice in rural areas such as Lower Bavaria)... it's straight back to female slavery. If societies want children, they could and should encourage people to have them. Not leave them with no choice. And for what it's worth my s/o and I would like to have children, but rents and general expenses have been insane before covid hit, and now with the Russian war it's gone even worse.

georgyo 4y ago

Are you suggesting that women should be forced to be house wifes and baby makers? Or maybe Japan should go full Handmaids Tale? It isn't pointed out because removing freedom is not an option. We have evolved beyond such primitive ways.

knewter 4y ago
Lol we just went through global lockdowns and most of the population was forced to have an at-best unhelpful injection in order to participate in the economy

dsq 4y ago

Women's education has the strongest correlation with declining births per woman. Glibally, not just Japan.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

Japan is an excellent counter-point for your argument. In practice, Japanese women have far less freedom than other countries -- if they don't quit their job when they have babies, they are fired. So why does Japan have such a low birth rate if women have less freedom than other western countries?