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Admirial Cloudberg covered at least one crash caused by fire caused by a cigarette. The response from the industry: smoke alarms. Banning smoking too was unthin

Admirial Cloudberg covered at least one crash caused by fire caused by a cigarette. The response from the industry: smoke alarms. Banning smoking too was unthinkable!

mjg59 4y ago
Brand new aircraft still include fixtures to stub out cigarettes in the bathrooms, because it doesn't matter if you declare that something's forbidden, people will do it anyway and you need to do what you can to minimise harm.
- buildsjets 4y ago
  The ashtray is required equipment, and you can't legally dispatch the airplane if it is inoperative, unless you disable that lavatory. Truth! 14 CFR 25.853 (g) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-25/subpart-D/subject-group-ECFR1e1f52030ba4797/section-25.853 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C...
- Marsymars 4y ago
  Won’t smoking in an airplane bathroom set off an alarm?
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    Yes. The person triggering the alarm will still likely look for a place to extinguish the cigarette, and pretend they've done nothing wrong. The ashtray thing is there because otherwise those idiots will put the burning cigarette in the trash or in the tank with chemicals in which it might just cause a pile-up of debris and clogs.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      I'd put this a bit differently, though with the same general idea: - The alarm will alert flight attendants to the situation, allow them to identify the violator of the non-smoking regulation, of the potentially hazardous situation (open flame in an aircraft), and if necessary bar the person from future flights. - The ashtray will likely prevent a lit cigarette from burning down the aircraft in flight if improperly disposed of with, say, dry paper trash. A smouldering cigarette in a rubbish bin could imperil the entire flight, passenger manifest, and crew.
brazzy 4y ago
I think you misremember. The cause of the fire on Air Canada flight 797 was never conclusively determined; a cigarette could not be completely ruled out, but was deemed very unlikely. Smoking culture was a contributing cause since it made fires in trash bins so common that the pilots didn't react with urgency to a fire that looked like that (but in that case was definitely not). Having smoke alarms was absolutely the correct response, because smoking is by no means the only cause of fires on airplanes. In fact, I'm not even sure there has been a single fatal crash involving fire that has been definitely caused by smoking, but there are many that are known to have been caused by other things, such as Nigeria Airways Flight 2120, Swissair flight 111, ValuJet flight 592 and China Airlines Flight 120.

Admirial Cloudberg covered at least one crash caused by fire caused by a cigarette. The response from the industry: smoke alarms. Banning smoking too was unthinkable!

mjg59 4y ago

Brand new aircraft still include fixtures to stub out cigarettes in the bathrooms, because it doesn't matter if you declare that something's forbidden, people will do it anyway and you need to do what you can to minimise harm.

buildsjets 4y ago
The ashtray is required equipment, and you can't legally dispatch the airplane if it is inoperative, unless you disable that lavatory. Truth! 14 CFR 25.853 (g) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-25/subpart-D/subject-group-ECFR1e1f52030ba4797/section-25.853 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C...
Marsymars 4y ago
Won’t smoking in an airplane bathroom set off an alarm?
- yencabulator 4y ago
  Yes. The person triggering the alarm will still likely look for a place to extinguish the cigarette, and pretend they've done nothing wrong. The ashtray thing is there because otherwise those idiots will put the burning cigarette in the trash or in the tank with chemicals in which it might just cause a pile-up of debris and clogs.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    I'd put this a bit differently, though with the same general idea: - The alarm will alert flight attendants to the situation, allow them to identify the violator of the non-smoking regulation, of the potentially hazardous situation (open flame in an aircraft), and if necessary bar the person from future flights. - The ashtray will likely prevent a lit cigarette from burning down the aircraft in flight if improperly disposed of with, say, dry paper trash. A smouldering cigarette in a rubbish bin could imperil the entire flight, passenger manifest, and crew.

brazzy 4y ago

I think you misremember. The cause of the fire on Air Canada flight 797 was never conclusively determined; a cigarette could not be completely ruled out, but was deemed very unlikely. Smoking culture was a contributing cause since it made fires in trash bins so common that the pilots didn't react with urgency to a fire that looked like that (but in that case was definitely not). Having smoke alarms was absolutely the correct response, because smoking is by no means the only cause of fires on airplanes. In fact, I'm not even sure there has been a single fatal crash involving fire that has been definitely caused by smoking, but there are many that are known to have been caused by other things, such as Nigeria Airways Flight 2120, Swissair flight 111, ValuJet flight 592 and China Airlines Flight 120.