6 ms·

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or pleases you every time you do it. Like, playing a game, or reading a book, or eating your favourite food. Now imagine someone telling you that you don't have to do that, it's just a choice. Imagine being deprived of it and being guilt-tripped into it. Sure you can wean yourself off it, but it'll take effort - uncomfortable, painful effort - and you might fail. And meanwhile some idiot on the internet is saying it's all just a choice. It is an addiction that was designed to be addictive by the manufacturers. It has never been a "mere choice". That first cigarette or two, maybe, but addiction is awful and horrible and doesn't deserve to be denigrated and reduced by flippancy.

chongli 4y ago
My father smoked for many years before quitting. I have two roommates that are smokers. The difference between him and them is that he wanted to quit, so he did. They continue to smoke because they do not want to quit. It’s as simple as that.
- jdkoeck 4y ago
  Right, so the reason there are thousands of books and methods about quitting smoking isn’t because it’s hard, it’s because people don’t really want to. Or maybe they’re stupid? Got it.
  - chongli 4y ago
    I didn’t say it was easy, or that people who smoke are stupid, I said it was a choice. If you choose to quit smoking then you’ll succeed.
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      Ah, the Yoda solution. "There is no try."
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        Want to quit != want to want to quit, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_volition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_volition
    - PaulRobinson 4y ago
      There are literally millions of people who choose to quit smoking and fail, every single day.
      - sebzim4500 4y ago
        I don't think it's 'fail' so much as 'change their mind'.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
    I know several people (including family members) who spent several decades "trying" to quit smoking, but "couldn't"... until they started having health problems and a doctor told them very clearly and in a serious tone that if they didn't quit, they would die. At that point, they quit literally overnight and never went back. And I'm using "literally" literally here. So yes, I know it's hard, but I'm pretty sure people who don't manage to quit just don't want to quit hard enough. They "want" to in the same sense that I want to learn martial arts: I've always thought that it would be great to master a martial art, and sometimes fantasize with it, but I know fully well that I'm never going to do it because I'm not willing to do what it takes (the time, the discipline, receiving blows, etc.) In other words, I don't think wanting to snap a finger and magically never feel like smoking anymore qualifies as wanting to quit smoking.
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  You have to want to change to be able to change. This isn't news. But even then, different people have different responses to addiction and some people find it easier than others. Willpower is not evenly distributed across the population. Resilience to uncomfortable situations is a muscle that has to be trained, and you need that before you can tackle addiction, and keep working on it. I'm pleased for your father, but your roommates are not the same person, and comparing them as if they are entirely equivalent is unfair to them AND your father. Your father had experience, willpower and resilience that your roommates do not yet have, and that's not their fault. When/if you encounter addiction writ large - drugs, alcohol, gambling - the stuff that gets real crazy real quick, you might see the problem and the difficulties associated it, and the nuance of an addiction that gets at somebody that does not have immediate consequences but delayed consequences. You might then get why your father did very well, and your roommates are relatively blameless in this regard.
pigsty 4y ago
I mean, unless as a child you had abusive parents who forced you to smoke, it’s absolutely a choice. There are people who can’t stop doing stupid stuff for attention (like breaking electronics for YouTube views or whatever), and we don’t blame “idiots” commenting online for their habits. There are people who refuse to eat vegetables and only eat junk food and we also don’t blame “idiots.” Yes. It’s addictive. But personal responsibility is admitting you made bad choices that led to bad habits and only you, through your own effort, can fix it. Countless people never smoked. Countless people stopped. Some people act like quitting smoking is some insufferable thing that others will never understand. Everyone has bad stuff they do that’s just as hard to quit. There are loads of people who are glued to chairs all day and make bad food and exercise decisions and it becomes a lifelong habit that’s borderline impossible to break (doubly so if you face health consequences before you can change), but they don’t get sympathy. People tell them to simply make an effort to change if they actually want to change.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  > Yes. It’s addictive. But personal responsibility is admitting you made bad choices that led to bad habits and only you, through your own effort, can fix it. We don't trust kids with making contracts/permanent choices for good reasons. And it is easy to get roped into smoking to fit in as a kid. So, I disagree on it being a choice in all situations.
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  Do you say this to all addicts? There are countless reasons people make bad choices: peer pressure, to calm anxiety, dealing with depression, and yeah, sometimes, abusive parents. But you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance and saying "well, sucks to be you", and taking the high ground. Good for you, it must be great up there never having made a bad choice. The moment somebody makes a poor choice does not mean we should then insist the game is over for them and it's their fault. That doesn't help them make better choices in future. Quitting smoking is incredibly hard. I've done it multiple times sometimes for years at a time - that's how hard it is - and you will never understand it unless you've personally suffered from addiction yourself. Do you think the attendees at Alcoholic Anonymous who stand up and say "I'm an alcoholic and haven't had a drink in 25 years" are being absurd, or speaking to a truth about addiction? Why do you think smokers have an easier time of it? I've not smoked in almost 6 years today. In a poor context, in a poor moment, I could be back in there in a heartbeat. It's not insufferable - I've suffered it - but you clearly and blatantly will never understand it. So please, get off the high horse, accept everybody makes poor choices in life, some of those can lead to a very tough addiction, and addiction can lead to poor health outcomes that are incredibly hard to resolve despite wanting to make changes for the better. A little more empathy could serve you well.
wincy 4y ago
Curious, did you start smoking in your teens? I smoked hookah every day for about a year when I was 25 because I vastly preferred it to going out to bars and it seemed to be an acceptable social alternative. Then I quit. I never crave cigarettes, unless I walk by a group of smokers then I might bum one. I’ve probably smoked 5 cigarettes in the last few years. When I vaped for a little while like five years ago to see if it’d help concentration I wouldn’t crave it exactly, more like if I had it I’d just pull it out absentmindedly and puff on it until it was empty. Anyway my working theory is when you start has a lot to do with getting addicted.
- ithkuil 4y ago
  Some people find It easier to quit, some people just can't do it. Some people manage to smoke one cigarette a day. Some people either quit for good or they get back at smocking two packs a day.
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  I started when I was 18. Drunk, social pressure, became hooked immediately. Took me 5 years to give up the second time. After 3 years social pressure led to me taking it up again for 12 years. I've now been a non-smoker for just under 6 years. It's still hard. I think any addiction is hard to walk away from once it's had you for a while, it's why addiction support groups exist. Alcohol, gambling and drugs can cause real chaos in the very short term whereas smoking can take years to cause serious damage, so people reduce it in terms of impact, but it's no different to any other form of addiction in terms of its difficulty to get away from. So when people act flippantly towards it, I realise they've had the good fortune of never having to deal with addiction in their lives. Good for them, but I really wish people had an ounce of common human empathy in them when talking about this. It's tough, and they clearly don't understand that.
kube-system 4y ago
Nicotine addiction is real, but cigarettes aren’t the only way to administer it. I’d imagine many smokers on a sub use an alternative rather than stop.
throw827474737 4y ago
As an ex smoker, I found quitting smoking one of the easiest things to do, just knew and decided it is time to stop now.. so I'm always surprised why is that. Also recently just going interval fasting for first time in my life because becoming a bit fat, not any problem, at all strangely. I wonder why that is, I wouldn't think I have a super strong will or just cannot be addicted, if I consider gaming or other procrastination habits.. But what definitely please shouldn't be done here is to put it into a category of "the most addictive thing" where really just heroine, true aclohol addiction, and similar drugs belong. Heroine/alcohol is nearly impossible to fight through with just own willpower. Objectively!
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  I quit drinking and smoking. Of those drinking was probably harder but neither was very hard for me. The key is to avoid situations that trigger your addiction. Don’t buy any of the products. Don’t hang around people that use them. Don’t go to places where people use them. And so on. This might mean you need to get new friends. It’s unfortunately the way it is. That’s why it’s harder to quit more ubiquitous things (like eating sugar). And it probably varies from person to person
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  Well done for quitting. Now, perhaps, imagine for one second, your experience is not like other people's. Objectively, based on actual studies, smoking is incredibly hard to quit. Please don't try and undermine that because you sit at the edge of the distribution curve. I'm glad that you do, but you are an outlier, and don't get to condemn all the other evidence on the basis of that.
KptMarchewa 4y ago
Food is more addictive, because even if you break the worst habits you have to continue to eat.

chongli 4y ago

My father smoked for many years before quitting. I have two roommates that are smokers. The difference between him and them is that he wanted to quit, so he did. They continue to smoke because they do not want to quit. It’s as simple as that.

jdkoeck 4y ago
Right, so the reason there are thousands of books and methods about quitting smoking isn’t because it’s hard, it’s because people don’t really want to. Or maybe they’re stupid? Got it.
- chongli 4y ago
  I didn’t say it was easy, or that people who smoke are stupid, I said it was a choice. If you choose to quit smoking then you’ll succeed.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    Ah, the Yoda solution. "There is no try."
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Want to quit != want to want to quit, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_volition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_volition
  - PaulRobinson 4y ago
    There are literally millions of people who choose to quit smoking and fail, every single day.
    - sebzim4500 4y ago
      I don't think it's 'fail' so much as 'change their mind'.
- Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
  I know several people (including family members) who spent several decades "trying" to quit smoking, but "couldn't"... until they started having health problems and a doctor told them very clearly and in a serious tone that if they didn't quit, they would die. At that point, they quit literally overnight and never went back. And I'm using "literally" literally here. So yes, I know it's hard, but I'm pretty sure people who don't manage to quit just don't want to quit hard enough. They "want" to in the same sense that I want to learn martial arts: I've always thought that it would be great to master a martial art, and sometimes fantasize with it, but I know fully well that I'm never going to do it because I'm not willing to do what it takes (the time, the discipline, receiving blows, etc.) In other words, I don't think wanting to snap a finger and magically never feel like smoking anymore qualifies as wanting to quit smoking.
PaulRobinson 4y ago
You have to want to change to be able to change. This isn't news. But even then, different people have different responses to addiction and some people find it easier than others. Willpower is not evenly distributed across the population. Resilience to uncomfortable situations is a muscle that has to be trained, and you need that before you can tackle addiction, and keep working on it. I'm pleased for your father, but your roommates are not the same person, and comparing them as if they are entirely equivalent is unfair to them AND your father. Your father had experience, willpower and resilience that your roommates do not yet have, and that's not their fault. When/if you encounter addiction writ large - drugs, alcohol, gambling - the stuff that gets real crazy real quick, you might see the problem and the difficulties associated it, and the nuance of an addiction that gets at somebody that does not have immediate consequences but delayed consequences. You might then get why your father did very well, and your roommates are relatively blameless in this regard.

pigsty 4y ago

I mean, unless as a child you had abusive parents who forced you to smoke, it’s absolutely a choice. There are people who can’t stop doing stupid stuff for attention (like breaking electronics for YouTube views or whatever), and we don’t blame “idiots” commenting online for their habits. There are people who refuse to eat vegetables and only eat junk food and we also don’t blame “idiots.” Yes. It’s addictive. But personal responsibility is admitting you made bad choices that led to bad habits and only you, through your own effort, can fix it. Countless people never smoked. Countless people stopped. Some people act like quitting smoking is some insufferable thing that others will never understand. Everyone has bad stuff they do that’s just as hard to quit. There are loads of people who are glued to chairs all day and make bad food and exercise decisions and it becomes a lifelong habit that’s borderline impossible to break (doubly so if you face health consequences before you can change), but they don’t get sympathy. People tell them to simply make an effort to change if they actually want to change.

Akronymus 4y ago
> Yes. It’s addictive. But personal responsibility is admitting you made bad choices that led to bad habits and only you, through your own effort, can fix it. We don't trust kids with making contracts/permanent choices for good reasons. And it is easy to get roped into smoking to fit in as a kid. So, I disagree on it being a choice in all situations.
PaulRobinson 4y ago
Do you say this to all addicts? There are countless reasons people make bad choices: peer pressure, to calm anxiety, dealing with depression, and yeah, sometimes, abusive parents. But you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance and saying "well, sucks to be you", and taking the high ground. Good for you, it must be great up there never having made a bad choice. The moment somebody makes a poor choice does not mean we should then insist the game is over for them and it's their fault. That doesn't help them make better choices in future. Quitting smoking is incredibly hard. I've done it multiple times sometimes for years at a time - that's how hard it is - and you will never understand it unless you've personally suffered from addiction yourself. Do you think the attendees at Alcoholic Anonymous who stand up and say "I'm an alcoholic and haven't had a drink in 25 years" are being absurd, or speaking to a truth about addiction? Why do you think smokers have an easier time of it? I've not smoked in almost 6 years today. In a poor context, in a poor moment, I could be back in there in a heartbeat. It's not insufferable - I've suffered it - but you clearly and blatantly will never understand it. So please, get off the high horse, accept everybody makes poor choices in life, some of those can lead to a very tough addiction, and addiction can lead to poor health outcomes that are incredibly hard to resolve despite wanting to make changes for the better. A little more empathy could serve you well.

wincy 4y ago

Curious, did you start smoking in your teens? I smoked hookah every day for about a year when I was 25 because I vastly preferred it to going out to bars and it seemed to be an acceptable social alternative. Then I quit. I never crave cigarettes, unless I walk by a group of smokers then I might bum one. I’ve probably smoked 5 cigarettes in the last few years. When I vaped for a little while like five years ago to see if it’d help concentration I wouldn’t crave it exactly, more like if I had it I’d just pull it out absentmindedly and puff on it until it was empty. Anyway my working theory is when you start has a lot to do with getting addicted.

ithkuil 4y ago
Some people find It easier to quit, some people just can't do it. Some people manage to smoke one cigarette a day. Some people either quit for good or they get back at smocking two packs a day.
PaulRobinson 4y ago
I started when I was 18. Drunk, social pressure, became hooked immediately. Took me 5 years to give up the second time. After 3 years social pressure led to me taking it up again for 12 years. I've now been a non-smoker for just under 6 years. It's still hard. I think any addiction is hard to walk away from once it's had you for a while, it's why addiction support groups exist. Alcohol, gambling and drugs can cause real chaos in the very short term whereas smoking can take years to cause serious damage, so people reduce it in terms of impact, but it's no different to any other form of addiction in terms of its difficulty to get away from. So when people act flippantly towards it, I realise they've had the good fortune of never having to deal with addiction in their lives. Good for them, but I really wish people had an ounce of common human empathy in them when talking about this. It's tough, and they clearly don't understand that.

kube-system 4y ago

Nicotine addiction is real, but cigarettes aren’t the only way to administer it. I’d imagine many smokers on a sub use an alternative rather than stop.

throw827474737 4y ago

As an ex smoker, I found quitting smoking one of the easiest things to do, just knew and decided it is time to stop now.. so I'm always surprised why is that. Also recently just going interval fasting for first time in my life because becoming a bit fat, not any problem, at all strangely. I wonder why that is, I wouldn't think I have a super strong will or just cannot be addicted, if I consider gaming or other procrastination habits.. But what definitely please shouldn't be done here is to put it into a category of "the most addictive thing" where really just heroine, true aclohol addiction, and similar drugs belong. Heroine/alcohol is nearly impossible to fight through with just own willpower. Objectively!

zeroonetwothree 4y ago
I quit drinking and smoking. Of those drinking was probably harder but neither was very hard for me. The key is to avoid situations that trigger your addiction. Don’t buy any of the products. Don’t hang around people that use them. Don’t go to places where people use them. And so on. This might mean you need to get new friends. It’s unfortunately the way it is. That’s why it’s harder to quit more ubiquitous things (like eating sugar). And it probably varies from person to person
PaulRobinson 4y ago
Well done for quitting. Now, perhaps, imagine for one second, your experience is not like other people's. Objectively, based on actual studies, smoking is incredibly hard to quit. Please don't try and undermine that because you sit at the edge of the distribution curve. I'm glad that you do, but you are an outlier, and don't get to condemn all the other evidence on the basis of that.

KptMarchewa 4y ago

Food is more addictive, because even if you break the worst habits you have to continue to eat.