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100% this Some of these places will also auto add grauituity charges as well for larger parties, and auto select a tip so if you don't look at the bill you cou

100% this Some of these places will also auto add grauituity charges as well for larger parties, and auto select a tip so if you don't look at the bill you could be footing out as much as 40%. Super shady UI practices. I don't want to be guilt tripped in tipping for a baked item for instance, or a chipotle style served food restaurant.

orev 4y ago
Adding a tip for large parties has been a common practice for decades—long before the current trend of adding tips for everything. Whether you agree with the idea of tips or not, that’s the system we have, and in that system large parties very often take up far more resources at a restaurant than smaller ones. They take more time to leave, they clog up the kitchen (as all dishes need to come out at the same time), they often occupy multiple servers at the same time (when a normal table takes only one), and very often don’t tip at a level anywhere close to the standard 15% (with so many people, everyone thinks they can get away with a low tip and others at the table will make up for it). Servers get charged taxes as if they received those tips, so getting shorted actually costs them money (paying taxes on money they didn’t receive). This practice is different than dark patterns, as it’s actually addressing a real problem with the customers that’s been known be restaurants for a long time. It’s not the same thing as trying to trick or guilt people into tipping.
- cudgy 4y ago
  I’m not buying this overall. Large groups typically order more alcoholic drinks while they are spending more time, which is hugely profitable for restaurants. Also, the more waiters argument doesn’t hold when there are more people/tables. I agree that bringing out more food at the same time is more effort, but this is not insurmountable. It’s basically a grift to get more money from the suckling pigs of wedding parties, birthday parties, and corporate dinners. Basically, extract more money from the big spenders. Really hate this practice.
  - hoorible 4y ago
    Sounds like you’ve never waited tables! Two-tops are the best for earnings, both for the restaurant and the server. Easier for a charismatic career server to separately charm three couples on dates than a single table of six all at once. And higher turnover is better for revenue. 1-on-1 business meeting? They’ve got work to do. Couples on dates? They’ve got fucking to do. Smaller parties -> faster turnover -> more money. Large parties are worse in every way. Special table arrangements for reservations made in advance mean more seats left empty while waiting for the arrival. People at large gatherings will buy less food/drink just as often as they’ll buy more. Sometimes it’s a work party where everything is expensed; cool! But lots of companies don’t cover alcohol expenses, which is your most profitable item. Just as often it’s a going away party for a bunch of retail workers where everyone nurses one drink for two hours and splits 3 appies across the whole table. Large parties suck. Some servers prefer them, but those people are heroes (and rare). Minimum 18% for large parties is standard where I am, but if it was my call it would be 30.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      > Easier for a charismatic career server to separately charm three couples on dates than a single table of six all at once. As an European from a non-tipping country this sounds really horrific to me. So you actively need to "charm/seduce" people into giving you larger tips to make over minimum wage?
      - viridian 4y ago
        It's worth noting that it's not just over minimum wage, your hourly can often be miles ahead of any other unskilled labor depending on how busy you are. Both of my sisters would frequently clear $400+ a night on weekends, amounting to over $50 an hour. The state minimum wage is $10/hour, so they can make over a week's worth of minimum wage pay in a single Saturday. Ultimately waiters and waitresses are hustling so they get paid like engineers, not Wal-Mart greeters.
        theshrike79 4y ago

orev 4y ago

Adding a tip for large parties has been a common practice for decades—long before the current trend of adding tips for everything. Whether you agree with the idea of tips or not, that’s the system we have, and in that system large parties very often take up far more resources at a restaurant than smaller ones. They take more time to leave, they clog up the kitchen (as all dishes need to come out at the same time), they often occupy multiple servers at the same time (when a normal table takes only one), and very often don’t tip at a level anywhere close to the standard 15% (with so many people, everyone thinks they can get away with a low tip and others at the table will make up for it). Servers get charged taxes as if they received those tips, so getting shorted actually costs them money (paying taxes on money they didn’t receive). This practice is different than dark patterns, as it’s actually addressing a real problem with the customers that’s been known be restaurants for a long time. It’s not the same thing as trying to trick or guilt people into tipping.

cudgy 4y ago
I’m not buying this overall. Large groups typically order more alcoholic drinks while they are spending more time, which is hugely profitable for restaurants. Also, the more waiters argument doesn’t hold when there are more people/tables. I agree that bringing out more food at the same time is more effort, but this is not insurmountable. It’s basically a grift to get more money from the suckling pigs of wedding parties, birthday parties, and corporate dinners. Basically, extract more money from the big spenders. Really hate this practice.
- hoorible 4y ago
  Sounds like you’ve never waited tables! Two-tops are the best for earnings, both for the restaurant and the server. Easier for a charismatic career server to separately charm three couples on dates than a single table of six all at once. And higher turnover is better for revenue. 1-on-1 business meeting? They’ve got work to do. Couples on dates? They’ve got fucking to do. Smaller parties -> faster turnover -> more money. Large parties are worse in every way. Special table arrangements for reservations made in advance mean more seats left empty while waiting for the arrival. People at large gatherings will buy less food/drink just as often as they’ll buy more. Sometimes it’s a work party where everything is expensed; cool! But lots of companies don’t cover alcohol expenses, which is your most profitable item. Just as often it’s a going away party for a bunch of retail workers where everyone nurses one drink for two hours and splits 3 appies across the whole table. Large parties suck. Some servers prefer them, but those people are heroes (and rare). Minimum 18% for large parties is standard where I am, but if it was my call it would be 30.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    > Easier for a charismatic career server to separately charm three couples on dates than a single table of six all at once. As an European from a non-tipping country this sounds really horrific to me. So you actively need to "charm/seduce" people into giving you larger tips to make over minimum wage?
    - viridian 4y ago
      It's worth noting that it's not just over minimum wage, your hourly can often be miles ahead of any other unskilled labor depending on how busy you are. Both of my sisters would frequently clear $400+ a night on weekends, amounting to over $50 an hour. The state minimum wage is $10/hour, so they can make over a week's worth of minimum wage pay in a single Saturday. Ultimately waiters and waitresses are hustling so they get paid like engineers, not Wal-Mart greeters.
      - theshrike79 4y ago