4 ms·

Not just Japan. Basically most of the world except Noth America pay their waiters wages that don't depend on tips. Sure some places allow additional tipping, b

by Renaud 4y ago

Not just Japan. Basically most of the world except Noth America pay their waiters wages that don't depend on tips. Sure some places allow additional tipping, but it's not a mandatory fee and the workers don't have to get it to make a living.

jandrewrogers 4y ago
The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. Any tips or mandatory service charges are always in addition to this and many waiters make more than the minimum wage. Replacing tipping with a 20% mandatory service charge -- tried many times here -- results in the employees earning less money, empirically. Eliminating tipping is unpopular with employees since it is effectively a pay cut. Proponents of "no tipping" policies in the US are not going to be successful until they address the elephant in the room of reduced pay for employees. Unlike in Europe, US employees know how much money they earn with tipping.
- Renaud 4y ago
  >The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. That may true in raw numbers but is it still true when you consider that a European worker will have coverage for health, retirement, paid annual leave, paid medical leave, will have access to unemployment benefits, will get subsidised lunches (in some countries) and will be protected by laws that enforce overtime pay and their rights to not be fired without justifiable cause. Raw numbers are not the full picture.
- autophagian 4y ago
  Generally, minimum wages are lower for tipped professions than non-tipped for this reason. Assuming you're talking about Seattle, which is the only place I could find with an $18.69/hr minimum wage, tipped employees make $16.50 in comparison [0]. [0]: https://www.seattle.gov/laborstandards/ordinances/minimum-wage https://www.seattle.gov/laborstandards/ordinances/minimum-wa...
  - ztrww 4y ago
    what about the entire state of California which has a higher population than most European countries?
  - jandrewrogers 4y ago
    In Seattle, waiters at many local restaurants and bars anecdotally seem to clear about ~$80k/year, so the minimum wage is kind of moot for most of them. I have several friends that work in the industry who have strong opinions on the matter. The tipping issue in Seattle isn't about a living wage, they already have that, it is about maximizing their income. After all, who doesn't want to maximize their income? The economic structure and dynamics of it are fascinating. What proponents of "no tipping" schemes fail to recognize is that it is against the interest of employees in many cases, even if it is often positioned otherwise.
- oblio 4y ago
  > The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. Any tips or mandatory service charges are always in addition to this and many waiters make more than the minimum wage. It's about the social safety net, not just about raw cash. The same waiter in most European countries would have health insurance even after being fired, for example.

by Renaud 4y ago

jandrewrogers 4y ago

The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. Any tips or mandatory service charges are always in addition to this and many waiters make more than the minimum wage. Replacing tipping with a 20% mandatory service charge -- tried many times here -- results in the employees earning less money, empirically. Eliminating tipping is unpopular with employees since it is effectively a pay cut. Proponents of "no tipping" policies in the US are not going to be successful until they address the elephant in the room of reduced pay for employees. Unlike in Europe, US employees know how much money they earn with tipping.

Renaud 4y ago
>The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. That may true in raw numbers but is it still true when you consider that a European worker will have coverage for health, retirement, paid annual leave, paid medical leave, will have access to unemployment benefits, will get subsidised lunches (in some countries) and will be protected by laws that enforce overtime pay and their rights to not be fired without justifiable cause. Raw numbers are not the full picture.
autophagian 4y ago
Generally, minimum wages are lower for tipped professions than non-tipped for this reason. Assuming you're talking about Seattle, which is the only place I could find with an $18.69/hr minimum wage, tipped employees make $16.50 in comparison [0]. [0]: https://www.seattle.gov/laborstandards/ordinances/minimum-wage https://www.seattle.gov/laborstandards/ordinances/minimum-wa...
- ztrww 4y ago
  what about the entire state of California which has a higher population than most European countries?
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  In Seattle, waiters at many local restaurants and bars anecdotally seem to clear about ~$80k/year, so the minimum wage is kind of moot for most of them. I have several friends that work in the industry who have strong opinions on the matter. The tipping issue in Seattle isn't about a living wage, they already have that, it is about maximizing their income. After all, who doesn't want to maximize their income? The economic structure and dynamics of it are fascinating. What proponents of "no tipping" schemes fail to recognize is that it is against the interest of employees in many cases, even if it is often positioned otherwise.
oblio 4y ago
> The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. Any tips or mandatory service charges are always in addition to this and many waiters make more than the minimum wage. It's about the social safety net, not just about raw cash. The same waiter in most European countries would have health insurance even after being fired, for example.