6 ms·

> none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage > the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. i don't know, TONS of people make way less than

by xp84 4y ago

> none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage > the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. i don't know, TONS of people make way less than baristas and other counter-service workers. Lots of the customers of those baristas make similar wages as they do. Why does the barista deserve that money more? The maids at a hotel make less than a Starbucks barista, and there's no way they get significant tips especially at the cheaper places. Tipping baristas and other counter-service workers who are NOT paid below minimum wage might make some progressives feel generous and virtuous, but it isn't solving any problems in a fair and equitable way. It's raising people's expectations -- in CERTAIN occupations only -- that they deserve $2 per customer for setting a cup on a counter and hollering your number.

rtpg 4y ago
I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage. isn't the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? I would find it very hard to believe anyone receiving tips prefering that to just a stable matching income (except for some exceptional cases...) And yeah, it turns out that people want to be paid more than minimum wage to be on their feet and dealing with customer orders all day long. I don't see why service people shouldn't be paid more than minimum wage!
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > isn’t the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? That’s a problem. Another problem is that it is demonstrated to be a loophole through which unequal compensation on bases that would otherwise be unlawful for an employer are achieved.
- ztrww 4y ago
  > I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage I’m certain that is not the case for many/most (depending on the area and establishment) tipped workers. Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. > will lower the base pay Not in California and some other places (applies to at least 10-15% of the US population)
  - rtpg 4y ago
    > Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. I don’t understand this argument. What I’m saying is to just take what the earnings were with wage + tips, and make it just wage. Literally not changing the total take home pay (I guess people don’t report tips though?)
    - panda-giddiness 4y ago
      Unfortunately I doubt this would be a steady state solution. If restaurants were to implement this suggestion, they'd probably undercut each other's prices by significantly lowering the wage of their staff.
      - carlosjobim 4y ago
        Business owners who don't pay their workers satisfactory wages will find nobody to work for them, lose customers and have to close. It's happening rapidly, worldwide, right now.
        panda-giddiness 4y ago
        Certainly there's a lower bound at which a business owner won't be able to staff their restaurant, but that lower bound isn't one penny less than the status quo. Rather, there's some shitty middle region, where employees are generally dissatisfied with their wages but not desperate enough to leave.
        carlosjobim 4y ago
        The world is changing more rapidly than ever and the attitudes of young workers (typically found in the hospitality industry) is completely different than just 10 years ago. Even the concept "desperate enough to leave" is alien: If a better opportunity shows up you switch, there is no question about it. Just like you yourself will pump gas at a station with a better price than the one you pumped gas in yesterday. There is absolutely no reward for sticking with an employer in this industry, if another employer has a better offer it's goodbye.
panda-giddiness 4y ago
> Why does the barista deserve that money more? I think you're conflating deserving that money more with deserving more money. Obviously the ideal solution would be to pay everyone better, but individuals are limited in their capacity to effect change. Eliminating tipping, absent a replacement, isn't fair either (except in the sense that all service workers would become equally poor).
goodpoint 4y ago
> make some progressives feel generous and virtuous What evidence you have to back up this claim?
paiute 4y ago
Wow. this attitude is awful and sadly not that uncommon. I have a friend whose household income is around 400k, is an effective alturist, and tips 10% at restaurants because he thinks tipping is unfair. The only place you're really expected to tip is a restaurant - 15-20%. everything else is optional, but when you make a ton of money and have taken care of your own, you tip people well for the hard work they do for you. Seriously, most of on this site, if we've been working 10+ years should be giving a 20 to the handyman, or leaving $10 on the bed at the hotel.
- BigRedDog1669 4y ago
  Why should you have to give your extra money to people in specific professions rather than give it to a family in Guatemala where it will go further? Do you tip everyone you interact with? How do you know who to tip? That sounds exhausting.
- LudwigNagasena 4y ago
  What is awful about it?

by xp84 4y ago

rtpg 4y ago

I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage. isn't the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? I would find it very hard to believe anyone receiving tips prefering that to just a stable matching income (except for some exceptional cases...) And yeah, it turns out that people want to be paid more than minimum wage to be on their feet and dealing with customer orders all day long. I don't see why service people shouldn't be paid more than minimum wage!

dragonwriter 4y ago
> isn’t the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? That’s a problem. Another problem is that it is demonstrated to be a loophole through which unequal compensation on bases that would otherwise be unlawful for an employer are achieved.
ztrww 4y ago
> I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage I’m certain that is not the case for many/most (depending on the area and establishment) tipped workers. Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. > will lower the base pay Not in California and some other places (applies to at least 10-15% of the US population)
- rtpg 4y ago
  > Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. I don’t understand this argument. What I’m saying is to just take what the earnings were with wage + tips, and make it just wage. Literally not changing the total take home pay (I guess people don’t report tips though?)
  - panda-giddiness 4y ago
    Unfortunately I doubt this would be a steady state solution. If restaurants were to implement this suggestion, they'd probably undercut each other's prices by significantly lowering the wage of their staff.
    - carlosjobim 4y ago
      Business owners who don't pay their workers satisfactory wages will find nobody to work for them, lose customers and have to close. It's happening rapidly, worldwide, right now.
      - panda-giddiness 4y ago
        Certainly there's a lower bound at which a business owner won't be able to staff their restaurant, but that lower bound isn't one penny less than the status quo. Rather, there's some shitty middle region, where employees are generally dissatisfied with their wages but not desperate enough to leave.
        carlosjobim 4y ago
        The world is changing more rapidly than ever and the attitudes of young workers (typically found in the hospitality industry) is completely different than just 10 years ago. Even the concept "desperate enough to leave" is alien: If a better opportunity shows up you switch, there is no question about it. Just like you yourself will pump gas at a station with a better price than the one you pumped gas in yesterday. There is absolutely no reward for sticking with an employer in this industry, if another employer has a better offer it's goodbye.

panda-giddiness 4y ago

> Why does the barista deserve that money more? I think you're conflating deserving that money more with deserving more money. Obviously the ideal solution would be to pay everyone better, but individuals are limited in their capacity to effect change. Eliminating tipping, absent a replacement, isn't fair either (except in the sense that all service workers would become equally poor).

goodpoint 4y ago

> make some progressives feel generous and virtuous What evidence you have to back up this claim?

paiute 4y ago

Wow. this attitude is awful and sadly not that uncommon. I have a friend whose household income is around 400k, is an effective alturist, and tips 10% at restaurants because he thinks tipping is unfair. The only place you're really expected to tip is a restaurant - 15-20%. everything else is optional, but when you make a ton of money and have taken care of your own, you tip people well for the hard work they do for you. Seriously, most of on this site, if we've been working 10+ years should be giving a 20 to the handyman, or leaving $10 on the bed at the hotel.

BigRedDog1669 4y ago
Why should you have to give your extra money to people in specific professions rather than give it to a family in Guatemala where it will go further? Do you tip everyone you interact with? How do you know who to tip? That sounds exhausting.
LudwigNagasena 4y ago
What is awful about it?