5 ms·

I am really of two minds about this. On one hand, yes, the suggestion that I leave a tip and the amount suggested has ballooned to a ridiculous level in some bu

by kbos87 4y ago

I am really of two minds about this. On one hand, yes, the suggestion that I leave a tip and the amount suggested has ballooned to a ridiculous level in some businesses. On the other hand, I recognize that there are plenty of businesses that still don't offer a way to tip at all (Starbucks until very recently), and more importantly, that none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage. Having worked service industry jobs and found my way out, I can't help but thinking that most of these jobs are merely dark patterns that take advantage of people who can't or won't demand what they actually should be paid. The unfortunate conclusion I've arrived at is that US consumers simply aren't willing to pay the true price for many of the things they enjoy on a day to day basis. Just one example is that their daily coffee is subsidized through the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. You say you pay a "higher wage" - what does that actually equate to for someone working 40 hours a week?

LudwigNagasena 4y ago
> Just one example is that their daily coffee is subsidized through the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. Your everything is "subsidized" by low wages of people living in third world countries. US coffee shop employees aren't quite near the bottom of that hierarchy.
- kbos87 4y ago
  100% true but doesn’t invalidate their situation. If we follow that logic to its end, there’s always someone in worse shape who is also further removed from those who have the ability to make a difference.
  - LudwigNagasena 4y ago
    Do you think you have no ability to make a difference for them?
- kbos87 4y ago
  I don’t disagree, but are you suggesting that we shouldn’t act to solve a problem just because it isn’t the worst possible problem? Feels like a convenient out.
xp84 4y ago
> none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage > the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. i don't know, TONS of people make way less than baristas and other counter-service workers. Lots of the customers of those baristas make similar wages as they do. Why does the barista deserve that money more? The maids at a hotel make less than a Starbucks barista, and there's no way they get significant tips especially at the cheaper places. Tipping baristas and other counter-service workers who are NOT paid below minimum wage might make some progressives feel generous and virtuous, but it isn't solving any problems in a fair and equitable way. It's raising people's expectations -- in CERTAIN occupations only -- that they deserve $2 per customer for setting a cup on a counter and hollering your number.
- rtpg 4y ago
  I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage. isn't the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? I would find it very hard to believe anyone receiving tips prefering that to just a stable matching income (except for some exceptional cases...) And yeah, it turns out that people want to be paid more than minimum wage to be on their feet and dealing with customer orders all day long. I don't see why service people shouldn't be paid more than minimum wage!
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > isn’t the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? That’s a problem. Another problem is that it is demonstrated to be a loophole through which unequal compensation on bases that would otherwise be unlawful for an employer are achieved.
  - ztrww 4y ago
    > I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage I’m certain that is not the case for many/most (depending on the area and establishment) tipped workers. Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. > will lower the base pay Not in California and some other places (applies to at least 10-15% of the US population)

by kbos87 4y ago

LudwigNagasena 4y ago

> Just one example is that their daily coffee is subsidized through the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. Your everything is "subsidized" by low wages of people living in third world countries. US coffee shop employees aren't quite near the bottom of that hierarchy.

kbos87 4y ago
100% true but doesn’t invalidate their situation. If we follow that logic to its end, there’s always someone in worse shape who is also further removed from those who have the ability to make a difference.
- LudwigNagasena 4y ago
  Do you think you have no ability to make a difference for them?
kbos87 4y ago
I don’t disagree, but are you suggesting that we shouldn’t act to solve a problem just because it isn’t the worst possible problem? Feels like a convenient out.

xp84 4y ago

> none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage > the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. i don't know, TONS of people make way less than baristas and other counter-service workers. Lots of the customers of those baristas make similar wages as they do. Why does the barista deserve that money more? The maids at a hotel make less than a Starbucks barista, and there's no way they get significant tips especially at the cheaper places. Tipping baristas and other counter-service workers who are NOT paid below minimum wage might make some progressives feel generous and virtuous, but it isn't solving any problems in a fair and equitable way. It's raising people's expectations -- in CERTAIN occupations only -- that they deserve $2 per customer for setting a cup on a counter and hollering your number.

rtpg 4y ago
I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage. isn't the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? I would find it very hard to believe anyone receiving tips prefering that to just a stable matching income (except for some exceptional cases...) And yeah, it turns out that people want to be paid more than minimum wage to be on their feet and dealing with customer orders all day long. I don't see why service people shouldn't be paid more than minimum wage!
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > isn’t the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? That’s a problem. Another problem is that it is demonstrated to be a loophole through which unequal compensation on bases that would otherwise be unlawful for an employer are achieved.
- ztrww 4y ago
  > I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage I’m certain that is not the case for many/most (depending on the area and establishment) tipped workers. Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. > will lower the base pay Not in California and some other places (applies to at least 10-15% of the US population)