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> He can't control himself I think the thing that would shock many people is that abusers have often adopted methods of harm and subjugation that they internal

> He can't control himself I think the thing that would shock many people is that abusers have often adopted methods of harm and subjugation that they internalized and came to consider normal, justified, and correct. They're executing from a place of intent and necessity, not chaos. They witness themselves doing it from a wildly different perspective than those around them would, and they may think the worst thing they do is get "a little heavy handed" or something. They might say that perhaps they got too loud or angry, but whatever they did was close enough to in line with what was necessitated by their target's bad behaviour. It could range from keeping a partner "in line" with passive aggressive ridicule, physical violence, abject control (denying access to car keys, no going out past 7pm, can't eat x amount of food, etc), to being so relentlessly discouraging and belittling that the partner feels helpless and trapped. No matter what it is they're doing, they whole-heartedly believe it's deserved and they're operating with as much control as anyone typically has. When we witness their behaviour we see a monster. And yet they're going about their work as though they are the one being inconvenienced by their incompetent/immoral/stupid/whatever partner. Many of these people would never dream of kicking their dog or something but they've completely normalized verbally and/or physically abusing people they have intimate relationships with. What would leave you absolutely mortified with yourself is simply necessary to these people. This is often why it's best to end these relationships. Someone who has normalized abuse could change, but there is a very good chance that you shouldn't wait to find out.

wpietri 4y ago
Very well put, and I agree. It's usually not a difference of mental health; it's a difference of values. One of the wild things to me, though, is the doublethink. It's true that if you ask them, they'll often say it was justified. But on the other hand, they generally know to save the worst of it until they can't be observed by outsiders. They're usually quite canny about presenting a non-abusive face to the world. So there's an important sense in which they know what they're doing is wrong.
heavyset_go 4y ago
> This is often why it's best to end these relationships. Someone who has normalized abuse could change, but there is a very good chance that you shouldn't wait to find out. Adding to this from my own experience. People tend to need reasons to change, and an abuser has no such reason, as their behavior gets them exactly what they want from their victims and relationships. They could change if they wanted to, but why would they do that when they're already getting what they want? Plenty of abusers like to paint "real abuse" as the expectations of treating their partners with respect and as equals, they are fundamentally opposed to the behaviors and beliefs needed to maintain healthy relationships. It is nearly impossible to change those deeply held beliefs, let alone address the behaviors that stem from those beliefs. I agree with your premise, but I'd replace "very good chance" with "utter certainty" that you shouldn't stick around hoping that an abuser is willing to change.

wpietri 4y ago

Very well put, and I agree. It's usually not a difference of mental health; it's a difference of values. One of the wild things to me, though, is the doublethink. It's true that if you ask them, they'll often say it was justified. But on the other hand, they generally know to save the worst of it until they can't be observed by outsiders. They're usually quite canny about presenting a non-abusive face to the world. So there's an important sense in which they know what they're doing is wrong.

heavyset_go 4y ago

> This is often why it's best to end these relationships. Someone who has normalized abuse could change, but there is a very good chance that you shouldn't wait to find out. Adding to this from my own experience. People tend to need reasons to change, and an abuser has no such reason, as their behavior gets them exactly what they want from their victims and relationships. They could change if they wanted to, but why would they do that when they're already getting what they want? Plenty of abusers like to paint "real abuse" as the expectations of treating their partners with respect and as equals, they are fundamentally opposed to the behaviors and beliefs needed to maintain healthy relationships. It is nearly impossible to change those deeply held beliefs, let alone address the behaviors that stem from those beliefs. I agree with your premise, but I'd replace "very good chance" with "utter certainty" that you shouldn't stick around hoping that an abuser is willing to change.