4 ms·

It’s not easy to start and build a business. Not everyone has the ability or luck required. I don’t see an issue with employees protesting or trying to sabotag

It’s not easy to start and build a business. Not everyone has the ability or luck required. I don’t see an issue with employees protesting or trying to sabotage a system they see as unjust.

prottog 4y ago
> trying to sabotage a system they see as unjust. You should see something wrong with someone actively sabotaging a system. It's fine and maybe encouraged to protest or move on to a better opportunity, but sabotage just means they're making the whole world a little bit worse off.
- fabianhjr 4y ago
  The US government is more than happy to sabotage the rest of the world to retain just a bit longer their crumbling dominant position. (And those are closer to assasinations, coup d'etats, and economic warfare)
  - nick__m 4y ago
    sabotage just means they're making the whole world a little bit worse
- midoridensha 4y ago
  So the German resistance were wrong to try to sabotage Hitler's war plans?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- mbg721 4y ago
  The idea is that this is a last-ditch situation where breaking windows leads to a long-term net positive.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  Hard disagree. If a system has virtue, it needs to stand up to various kinds of scrutiny. Using housing as an analogy, pushing zoning, wealth, and development restrictions to their limit, people either leave their communities to find homes elsewhere, or they start setting up tents in backyards until the police can't do anything about it. The system should crumble at a certain point.
beaned 4y ago
I think a lot of people simultaneously acknowledge that a business can be difficult to start for themselves, but fail to acknowledge that it wasn't any easier for their current employer to get started either. (Probably, in most cases; cue exceptions.) And that part of the tradeoff in working for someone else who actually did go out and achieve what you do have available to you but are not doing, is accepting that you work by their rules. And that you can negotiate and influence but at the end of the day it is their decision, just as you would want when running a business you've started.
- dpritchett 4y ago
  That’a a lot to ask of folks who are spending a third of their waking lives on a shared endeavor. May as well ask family to stop having opinions on my cooking.
  - beaned 4y ago
    > you can negotiate and influence but at the end of the day it is their decision A family is more flat. Save for parents, a companies generally are more rigorously hierarchical.
- jkachmar 4y ago
  > [...] part of the tradeoff in working for someone else [...] is accepting that you work by their rules. i think a healthy working relationship involves employer & employee collaborating according to a set of mutually beneficial rules, which prevents either party from taking advantage of the other. this is (at least idealistically) what employment contracts are for, even if they have a natural tendency to favor the employer in most situations. besides that, i think there are plenty of examples from recent history which demonstrate that it's not healthy for the rules under which an employee operates to be solely outlined by the owner of the business (e.g. because that owner may attempt to take advantage of the employee).
- zug_zug 4y ago
  No, when a company hires you, the company becomes part you. And you have every right to do whatever you want that you think is best for the company's future, even if it undermines what managers says -- be that whistleblowing, refusing to stack rank, refusing to hide the fact that a stack-rank policy exists. If the company cannot convince you that its policies are efficient and moral, then that is their mistake for hiring somebody who sees the world fundamentally differently. If they don't want people to do that, they should tell every new manager in the hiring interview "Part of working here as a manager involves stack ranking people as low, even if they are doing great work, and not telling them they are under stack ranking, and if you cannot do that you won't want to work here"
luxuryballs 4y ago
the issue is plainly that nobody is paying them to protest or sabotage the company
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  That attitude only works in Amazon warehouses. If a software developer at Amazon takes a long bathroom break the powers that be aren’t going to do a damn thing about it. Employees in tech have a lot of power. It’s much better than the alternative.
  - luxuryballs 4y ago
    I’ve been a software developer for years and nobody has ever paid me to do anything other than work. Nobody has ever paid me to leave a bad review about their company either so I’ve never done that. I draw a stark line between where my business ends and their business begins. I call this being a professional.
    - cactusplant7374 4y ago
      > Nobody has ever paid me to leave a bad review about their company either so I’ve never done that. With that in mind, can I then assume that you're being paid by Blizzard to post here?
      - luxuryballs 4y ago
        Lol nobody has ever paid me to write a good review either but there was a time years ago when I posted one just to help the average for a company I worked for, marketing and PR is always somewhat a group effort, whether people realize it or not, similar concept to an employee wearing a clean vs. sloppy uniform or being polite/helpful to customers

It’s not easy to start and build a business. Not everyone has the ability or luck required. I don’t see an issue with employees protesting or trying to sabotage a system they see as unjust.

prottog 4y ago

> trying to sabotage a system they see as unjust. You should see something wrong with someone actively sabotaging a system. It's fine and maybe encouraged to protest or move on to a better opportunity, but sabotage just means they're making the whole world a little bit worse off.

fabianhjr 4y ago
The US government is more than happy to sabotage the rest of the world to retain just a bit longer their crumbling dominant position. (And those are closer to assasinations, coup d'etats, and economic warfare)
- nick__m 4y ago
  sabotage just means they're making the whole world a little bit worse
midoridensha 4y ago
So the German resistance were wrong to try to sabotage Hitler's war plans?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mbg721 4y ago
The idea is that this is a last-ditch situation where breaking windows leads to a long-term net positive.
brailsafe 4y ago
Hard disagree. If a system has virtue, it needs to stand up to various kinds of scrutiny. Using housing as an analogy, pushing zoning, wealth, and development restrictions to their limit, people either leave their communities to find homes elsewhere, or they start setting up tents in backyards until the police can't do anything about it. The system should crumble at a certain point.

beaned 4y ago

I think a lot of people simultaneously acknowledge that a business can be difficult to start for themselves, but fail to acknowledge that it wasn't any easier for their current employer to get started either. (Probably, in most cases; cue exceptions.) And that part of the tradeoff in working for someone else who actually did go out and achieve what you do have available to you but are not doing, is accepting that you work by their rules. And that you can negotiate and influence but at the end of the day it is their decision, just as you would want when running a business you've started.

dpritchett 4y ago
That’a a lot to ask of folks who are spending a third of their waking lives on a shared endeavor. May as well ask family to stop having opinions on my cooking.
- beaned 4y ago
  > you can negotiate and influence but at the end of the day it is their decision A family is more flat. Save for parents, a companies generally are more rigorously hierarchical.
jkachmar 4y ago
> [...] part of the tradeoff in working for someone else [...] is accepting that you work by their rules. i think a healthy working relationship involves employer & employee collaborating according to a set of mutually beneficial rules, which prevents either party from taking advantage of the other. this is (at least idealistically) what employment contracts are for, even if they have a natural tendency to favor the employer in most situations. besides that, i think there are plenty of examples from recent history which demonstrate that it's not healthy for the rules under which an employee operates to be solely outlined by the owner of the business (e.g. because that owner may attempt to take advantage of the employee).
zug_zug 4y ago
No, when a company hires you, the company becomes part you. And you have every right to do whatever you want that you think is best for the company's future, even if it undermines what managers says -- be that whistleblowing, refusing to stack rank, refusing to hide the fact that a stack-rank policy exists. If the company cannot convince you that its policies are efficient and moral, then that is their mistake for hiring somebody who sees the world fundamentally differently. If they don't want people to do that, they should tell every new manager in the hiring interview "Part of working here as a manager involves stack ranking people as low, even if they are doing great work, and not telling them they are under stack ranking, and if you cannot do that you won't want to work here"

luxuryballs 4y ago

the issue is plainly that nobody is paying them to protest or sabotage the company

cactusplant7374 4y ago
That attitude only works in Amazon warehouses. If a software developer at Amazon takes a long bathroom break the powers that be aren’t going to do a damn thing about it. Employees in tech have a lot of power. It’s much better than the alternative.
- luxuryballs 4y ago
  I’ve been a software developer for years and nobody has ever paid me to do anything other than work. Nobody has ever paid me to leave a bad review about their company either so I’ve never done that. I draw a stark line between where my business ends and their business begins. I call this being a professional.
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    > Nobody has ever paid me to leave a bad review about their company either so I’ve never done that. With that in mind, can I then assume that you're being paid by Blizzard to post here?
    - luxuryballs 4y ago
      Lol nobody has ever paid me to write a good review either but there was a time years ago when I posted one just to help the average for a company I worked for, marketing and PR is always somewhat a group effort, whether people realize it or not, similar concept to an employee wearing a clean vs. sloppy uniform or being polite/helpful to customers