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> You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember being asked this the first time I visited the US in t

> You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember being asked this the first time I visited the US in the early 1990. To me, this was downright progressive: In Switzerland, at the time, you did NOT have the choice of a non-smoking section available.

ornornor 4y ago
I moved to Switzerland recently and I was very unpleasantly surprised at the general attitude towards smoking here. It’s routine to see someone hold an infant or child in one hand and a smoke in the other. It’s technically forbidden to smoke in train stations but there is no enforcement and people will smoke everywhere anyway. Same thing for underground parkings. The “rule” seems to be that if you can somehow see the outside and it’s not separated by a door/window, then you’re “outside” and can smoke… Terrasses in bars and restaurants are basically a giant smoke cloud as the smoke gets trapped under the umbrellas/awnings for everyone (children included) to enjoy. Smoking right in front of entrances and windows is a national sport. Advertisement for tobacco and vapes is allowed and ubiquitous. So many people are smokers in CH (all ages), it’s impossible to go out without coming back reeking of cold smoke. You can’t really enjoy a balcony or open window because everyone else around smokes and it’ll get into your living quarters. This was such a major disappointment. I imagined Switzerland having clean air and low pollution… well, far from it. I don’t smoke and I’ve never smoked as much through other peoples second hand smoke as here. Ditto car exhaust.
- netsharc 4y ago
  The train station smoking ban is only a few years old, it used to be a lot worse, you get off the train and many people would be smoking (either their last cigarette before the ride, or their first after getting off). Nowadays it's just a few people who ignore the rules, without consequences.
  - Freak_NL 4y ago
    Yeah, that was one of the things that struck me as so weird coming from the Netherlands when I was on holiday in Switzerland. While the Netherlands was already on track to ban smoking on the actual train platforms as well at that time, arriving at the central station of Zurich was really something else. Smokers everywhere, in a country that was so orderly in most other respects. > Nowadays it's just a few people who ignore the rules, without consequences. For now. In a while the last holdouts will be confronted by people around them and staff alike as the public opinion shifts. People who are strongly affected by cigarette smoke (asthmatics, COPD sufferers) will slowly come to expect that those areas are really smoke free too, and are places they can actually go without having to take medication directly after. The affront of someone smoking where they shouldn't is gradually felt more acutely.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      Most COPD sufferers are heavy smokers themselves :) This is how they got COPD in fact. In the Netherlands it's pretty standard in pensioner's housing.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Terraces in bars are now just smoking areas in countries that implemented an indoor smoking ban. Some places try implement an X meters from entrances rule, but its a waste of time.
  - ornornor 4y ago
    Depends where. It’s illegal to smoke on terraces, near entrances, and near windows in Canada. I believe NYC has similar bylaws. But yes in many places, outdoor and terraces/patios are still a health hazard.
    - nibbleshifter 4y ago
      Terraces and patios here are clearly designated as the smoking area. Bars without a smoking area simply don't survive - nobody goes to them.
      - ornornor 4y ago
        Still doesn’t make it right. As a rational individual (or as my couple of friends with a new born), if I want to avoid exposing myself or infants to known carcinogens, I have to never ever eat on a patio/terrace because it’s been co-opted for smoking, but also not indoors because the smoke generally gets in through the windows and entrances (as the waiters move a lot of air by going to and from the kitchen hundreds of time a service)
        nibbleshifter 4y ago
        That is your problem. If the terrace is clearly marked as a smoking area, complaining about people smoking in the smoking area is irrational behavior. As for bringing infants to bars... Well. Restaurants is one thing, but bringing infants (or any children) to bars is just antisocial behavior. Where I live its not permitted for minors to be in the bar after 9pm, but many people think it should be much, much earlier cutoff time. Now what's funny is, this actually was briefly a solved problem, but anti smoking people went and ruined it for everyone in some countries. The solution was entirely sealed off smoking rooms with ventilation that ensured smoke didn't "leak" from the smoking room. Anti smoking campaigners made it so smoking areas had to be in the open air to some extent, entirely prohibiting indoor smoking rooms. Hence: the patio/terrace is now the smoking area, instead of sectioning off of an area indoors and fitting of a ventilation.
- johnwalkr 4y ago
  >The “rule” seems to be that if you can somehow see the outside and it’s not separated by a door/window, then you’re “outside” and can smoke… Smoking right in front of entrances and windows is a national sport This is true in most of Europe to varying degrees. You often see people standing just inside of a doorway, with one hand technically "outside" while they are smoking. Or quickly inhaling a cigarette as a bus/train approaches, and then exhaling it on the bus/train.
- durnygbur 4y ago
  Check the location of Philip Morris headquarters. Too many local salaries and careers depend on you passively inhaling the smoke... and lookup revolving door between tobacco and pharma industries.

ornornor 4y ago

I moved to Switzerland recently and I was very unpleasantly surprised at the general attitude towards smoking here. It’s routine to see someone hold an infant or child in one hand and a smoke in the other. It’s technically forbidden to smoke in train stations but there is no enforcement and people will smoke everywhere anyway. Same thing for underground parkings. The “rule” seems to be that if you can somehow see the outside and it’s not separated by a door/window, then you’re “outside” and can smoke… Terrasses in bars and restaurants are basically a giant smoke cloud as the smoke gets trapped under the umbrellas/awnings for everyone (children included) to enjoy. Smoking right in front of entrances and windows is a national sport. Advertisement for tobacco and vapes is allowed and ubiquitous. So many people are smokers in CH (all ages), it’s impossible to go out without coming back reeking of cold smoke. You can’t really enjoy a balcony or open window because everyone else around smokes and it’ll get into your living quarters. This was such a major disappointment. I imagined Switzerland having clean air and low pollution… well, far from it. I don’t smoke and I’ve never smoked as much through other peoples second hand smoke as here. Ditto car exhaust.

netsharc 4y ago
The train station smoking ban is only a few years old, it used to be a lot worse, you get off the train and many people would be smoking (either their last cigarette before the ride, or their first after getting off). Nowadays it's just a few people who ignore the rules, without consequences.
- Freak_NL 4y ago
  Yeah, that was one of the things that struck me as so weird coming from the Netherlands when I was on holiday in Switzerland. While the Netherlands was already on track to ban smoking on the actual train platforms as well at that time, arriving at the central station of Zurich was really something else. Smokers everywhere, in a country that was so orderly in most other respects. > Nowadays it's just a few people who ignore the rules, without consequences. For now. In a while the last holdouts will be confronted by people around them and staff alike as the public opinion shifts. People who are strongly affected by cigarette smoke (asthmatics, COPD sufferers) will slowly come to expect that those areas are really smoke free too, and are places they can actually go without having to take medication directly after. The affront of someone smoking where they shouldn't is gradually felt more acutely.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    Most COPD sufferers are heavy smokers themselves :) This is how they got COPD in fact. In the Netherlands it's pretty standard in pensioner's housing.
nibbleshifter 4y ago
Terraces in bars are now just smoking areas in countries that implemented an indoor smoking ban. Some places try implement an X meters from entrances rule, but its a waste of time.
- ornornor 4y ago
  Depends where. It’s illegal to smoke on terraces, near entrances, and near windows in Canada. I believe NYC has similar bylaws. But yes in many places, outdoor and terraces/patios are still a health hazard.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    Terraces and patios here are clearly designated as the smoking area. Bars without a smoking area simply don't survive - nobody goes to them.
    - ornornor 4y ago
      Still doesn’t make it right. As a rational individual (or as my couple of friends with a new born), if I want to avoid exposing myself or infants to known carcinogens, I have to never ever eat on a patio/terrace because it’s been co-opted for smoking, but also not indoors because the smoke generally gets in through the windows and entrances (as the waiters move a lot of air by going to and from the kitchen hundreds of time a service)
      - nibbleshifter 4y ago
        That is your problem. If the terrace is clearly marked as a smoking area, complaining about people smoking in the smoking area is irrational behavior. As for bringing infants to bars... Well. Restaurants is one thing, but bringing infants (or any children) to bars is just antisocial behavior. Where I live its not permitted for minors to be in the bar after 9pm, but many people think it should be much, much earlier cutoff time. Now what's funny is, this actually was briefly a solved problem, but anti smoking people went and ruined it for everyone in some countries. The solution was entirely sealed off smoking rooms with ventilation that ensured smoke didn't "leak" from the smoking room. Anti smoking campaigners made it so smoking areas had to be in the open air to some extent, entirely prohibiting indoor smoking rooms. Hence: the patio/terrace is now the smoking area, instead of sectioning off of an area indoors and fitting of a ventilation.
johnwalkr 4y ago
>The “rule” seems to be that if you can somehow see the outside and it’s not separated by a door/window, then you’re “outside” and can smoke… Smoking right in front of entrances and windows is a national sport This is true in most of Europe to varying degrees. You often see people standing just inside of a doorway, with one hand technically "outside" while they are smoking. Or quickly inhaling a cigarette as a bus/train approaches, and then exhaling it on the bus/train.
durnygbur 4y ago
Check the location of Philip Morris headquarters. Too many local salaries and careers depend on you passively inhaling the smoke... and lookup revolving door between tobacco and pharma industries.