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Unless you have your own private plane, the airplane would just as much take off without you as Google would still be running servers whether you used it or not

Unless you have your own private plane, the airplane would just as much take off without you as Google would still be running servers whether you used it or not. Are you alone going to make a difference by not flying? Like that neocon anti-environmental Obama said “we aren’t going to save the planet by throwing a bottle in the recycling bin”

lxgr 4y ago
Is it really that hard to understand? The airplane takes off if, on average, the sum of dollars that all ticketed passengers are willing to pay for the benefit of being on it is larger than the operational and capital cost of the airline for operating that one flight. Your contribution (in a purely causal sense, regardless of what moral statement you might read into it) to all of this is very indirect and diluted, but that does not make it zero.
- scarface74 4y ago
  How much could you reduce your carbon footprint if you didn’t use HN? Google? Silly questions aren’t they?
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Note that you're the one bringing the "carbon footprint" concept into this conversation, not me. > How much could you reduce your carbon footprint if you didn’t use HN? Google? Again, I don't really subscribe to the idea of carbon footprints, but for the sake of the argument: Insignificantly little, compared to the emissions caused by the flights I take. > Silly questions aren’t they? Absolutely.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The first reply to this sub thread asked me about my “carbon footprint”. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34494390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34494390 From just a brief Google search, 500,000 people are in the air at any given time. When my wife an I fly we are 0.0004% of all of the people in the air. Is that percentage “significant”?
      - lxgr 4y ago
        Yes, but I‘m not the same person that mentioned your carbon footprint. My point is, carbon footprint or not, that buying flight tickets and airplanes flying are in a causal relationship, which you seem to be denying, which in turn I find absurd. You are responsible (again, no moral judgement or carbon footprint shaming implied; again, I fly too, and not too infrequently) for the consequences your actions, and dilution of responsibility seems like an extremely immature way of dealing with that. Buying a flight ticket isn‘t the same thing as chartering a private jet, but it‘s also not the same thing as riding a bike around the block in terms of energy and resource expenditure. What we do about all of these things is a question completely secondary to the discussion at hand.
        scarface74 4y ago
        And if you didn’t ride a bike and walked everywhere you would save the resources required to make the bike. Are you not also “diluting” the responsibility by not taking into account all of the energy you use by being on your computer? By being on the internet? At what point does it become silly? Or do you set the bar right above “the things I don’t do”?
        lxgr 4y ago
        > Are you not also “diluting” the responsibility by not taking into account all of the energy you use by being on your computer? By being on the internet? No, I am accepting the responsibility for all of these actions (at least insofar as I am aware of their consequences) – which are not nearly in the same ballpark as flying in terms of energy expenditure, but again, you're the one counting/comparing, not me. > Or do you set the bar right above “the things I don’t do”? Like what, taking airplanes? You seem to be intentionally ignoring the fact that I have repeatedly stated that I do. I just don't engage in ridiculous logical acrobatics in trying to rationalize away the consequences of doing so.

lxgr 4y ago

Is it really that hard to understand? The airplane takes off if, on average, the sum of dollars that all ticketed passengers are willing to pay for the benefit of being on it is larger than the operational and capital cost of the airline for operating that one flight. Your contribution (in a purely causal sense, regardless of what moral statement you might read into it) to all of this is very indirect and diluted, but that does not make it zero.

scarface74 4y ago
How much could you reduce your carbon footprint if you didn’t use HN? Google? Silly questions aren’t they?
- lxgr 4y ago
  Note that you're the one bringing the "carbon footprint" concept into this conversation, not me. > How much could you reduce your carbon footprint if you didn’t use HN? Google? Again, I don't really subscribe to the idea of carbon footprints, but for the sake of the argument: Insignificantly little, compared to the emissions caused by the flights I take. > Silly questions aren’t they? Absolutely.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The first reply to this sub thread asked me about my “carbon footprint”. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34494390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34494390 From just a brief Google search, 500,000 people are in the air at any given time. When my wife an I fly we are 0.0004% of all of the people in the air. Is that percentage “significant”?
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Yes, but I‘m not the same person that mentioned your carbon footprint. My point is, carbon footprint or not, that buying flight tickets and airplanes flying are in a causal relationship, which you seem to be denying, which in turn I find absurd. You are responsible (again, no moral judgement or carbon footprint shaming implied; again, I fly too, and not too infrequently) for the consequences your actions, and dilution of responsibility seems like an extremely immature way of dealing with that. Buying a flight ticket isn‘t the same thing as chartering a private jet, but it‘s also not the same thing as riding a bike around the block in terms of energy and resource expenditure. What we do about all of these things is a question completely secondary to the discussion at hand.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        And if you didn’t ride a bike and walked everywhere you would save the resources required to make the bike. Are you not also “diluting” the responsibility by not taking into account all of the energy you use by being on your computer? By being on the internet? At what point does it become silly? Or do you set the bar right above “the things I don’t do”?
        lxgr 4y ago
        > Are you not also “diluting” the responsibility by not taking into account all of the energy you use by being on your computer? By being on the internet? No, I am accepting the responsibility for all of these actions (at least insofar as I am aware of their consequences) – which are not nearly in the same ballpark as flying in terms of energy expenditure, but again, you're the one counting/comparing, not me. > Or do you set the bar right above “the things I don’t do”? Like what, taking airplanes? You seem to be intentionally ignoring the fact that I have repeatedly stated that I do. I just don't engage in ridiculous logical acrobatics in trying to rationalize away the consequences of doing so.