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Reddit to go dark on Jan 18 to protest SOPA
- ibejoeb 15y ago@scoofy: it looks like you might be on to something. Reddit quickly adopted this proposed date. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3441117 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3441117
- endianswap 15y agoNot to crush your idea, but January 18 is when Alexis “kn0thing” Ohanian will be testifying about SOPA in front of Congress. I imagine if the testifying were to happen on January 19th the blackout would be then as well.
- kevinh 15y agoSetting the blackout of reddit for a day when he can't use it anyway? Brilliant.
- llambda 15y agoBlacking out Google is one thing and something that I hope happens if all else fails. Now I'm sure blacking out Reddit will at least get a certain demographic in the U.S. to notice, but isn't this the same demographic that is already working to remove certain members of Congress for their support of SOPA? So my question: what kind of impact will this have? Certainly there won't be too many Congress members worked up over a blacked out Reddit...
- tiles 15y agoBlocking out Google would have more impact, because it affects a site nearly every internet user uses every day. Still, blocking Reddit is an excellent demonstration of a site which will directly be affected by SOPA (and the impossibilitiy of policing user-uploaded content for copyright violations) and news outlets and the media would have at least one significant example to point to of what the SOPA opposition is talking about. Better than Reddit do nothing, certainly, even if it's only a PR move.
- hessenwolf 15y agoPeople might be kinda pissed if google blacks out. There are a lot of urgent services that use google. If just one person can't identify the snake that bit them on that day...
- leptons 15y agoBlacking out completely is too extreme. I would say a better approach is to put a full-page interstitial ad up over all of these sites with phone numbers to call, and a 30 second timer before you can use the service - be it Google, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, HN, all the things. Let users get to the service but only after 30 seconds of looking at the phone numbers of US representatives offices, and a message that if SOPA passes, these sites will be gone for good.
- jitendra_ 15y agoThat would the most plausible approach Google, Facebook, Twitter and other major sites could take if they were to black out. However, such blackout were to happen, should be restricted to US only. And, Google probably would not want to black out Google Apps. I guess that would infuriate a lot of paying customers.
- molmalo 15y agoExactly, i thought the same thing. That would be the the ideal way of making this work. Because you let your users know about what's going on (if it were google, a number of them would search about sopa to learn more), and let them also coordinate their actions.
- slavak 15y agoThis could be a good use for a new Google doodle. Some kind of black anti-SOPA banner that includes the Google logo, maybe? It has the double benefit of wide front-page exposure along with not requiring a complete break from Google's traditional UX.
- edwardy20 15y ago
- ntkachov 15y agoI'm sure a few million of reddit's 20 million UU's skip over the sopa stuff or they only browse one subreddit. They released some stats where less than 10% of the websites users even have an account and only 1% submit stuff. So Blocking out reddit will do alot.
- tzs 15y agoBlacking out Google would not be effective. Those who favor SOPA would offer the argument that part of Google's income is from monetizing piracy so their motives are suspect. edit: could who ever down voted post a counter argument? Do you have some reason to believe that SOPA proponents would not make that argument?
- gph 15y agoBut would those in favor speak up? Haven't you noticed that all the SOPA-supporting media outlets have been rather mum about SOPA? They want it to pass without being noticed because they can't sugar-coat this one for the American public.
- intenex 15y agoIt's effective because it gets the word out more than any other action could. Period. The problem is most people don't even realize SOPA's threatening the internet right now. And anyone who's heard of SOPA already except a industry/congressman is probably against SOPA, and anyone who hasn't heard of SOPA aside from the Google blackout would be unlikely to hear the suspect Google motive news. So, Con: People who are already Pro-SOPA have one little complaint to add to their little list Pro: The entire internet population becomes aware of SOPA and realizes that sh*t is real. I didn't vote you down, but here's your counter argument.
- ghshephard 15y agoI downvoted you for two reasons. 1. Suggesting that blacking out google would not be effective is naive. It would be very effective. 2. While it would be straightforward for to make an argument that mp3.com, grooveshark, and piratebay.org have suspect motives - I don't think the majority of people think "Piracy" when they think "Google" - they think "Search."
- dodedo 15y agoTo build on your last point, it's clear that we as a society desire the Google search product. It is necessary for legislation to be compatible with the Google use case -- not the other way around.
- fauldsh 15y agoI think the major aim is to attract the attention of employees at other more mainstream websites into pressing for similar action elsewhere. Facebook and Google are the two obvious ones, if either of those decides to join in then the majority of the US will hear of the bill (through, contact with the website, talk among peers and news coverage). Reddit on its own however, will have little affect on the general populous.
- mbesto 15y agoReddit gets about 66million pageviews per day and ranks on Alexa at #55 in the US[1]. It's not entirely insignificant. [1]http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/reddit.com http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/reddit.com
- cookiecaper 15y agoBut (nearly) everyone who reads reddit is already aware of the problem and many have already complained. The point in turning off the big sites is to get a lot of angry constituents from apparently "mainstream" demographics (i.e., not "a bunch of nerds") calling and freaking out because they can't get to Facebook. I know, for instance, that my mom would be seriously flipping out if Facebook were blacked out for her. If they asked her to make a call to get through, she would call immediately and yell at the people for making Facebook not work. This would happen millions upon millions of times over, which is why people want major sites like Facebook to participate. I find it both scary and intriguing that a small handful of companies could have such a significant effect on the legislative process merely by presenting something in a negative light to their users, and requiring some action to affirm that viewpoint before allowing the user to access the service. Taking Facebook down completely seems extremely counter-productive for everyone. Just a button that says "I called, let me through" should be good enough, there would be plenty of people who have an aversion to clicking through that without actually placing the call, and then Facebook (and its dependents, Zynga et al) doesn't lose 12-24 solid hours of ad revenue. I strongly agree that if Google "blacks out" anything, they should restrict it to search only. Email and other essential services must remain accessible.
- capkutay 15y agoGoogle is a publicly traded company with millions of daily users. Wouldn't they experience some repercussions if they were to take part in a black out? I doubt a company in their position would do something like that.
- robryan 15y agoWon't they also have repercussions if sopa goes though? A short term loss could be a big long term gain.
- jlarocco 15y agoWhat repercussions are you talking about? Reddit isn't as large as Google, but they also have millions of daily users and depend on their site traffic for their income.
- biot 15y agoFiduciary duty to shareholders. A blackout preventing searches (rather than an informative message that users can easily dismiss) would impact revenue and might result in a shareholder lawsuit. Not to mention the impact to AdSense [edit: I meant to say AdWords] advertisers who might see that as an SLA violation.
- jlarocco 15y agoDoes AdSense have an SLA? In any case, I'd be shocked if the contracts weren't in terms of number of searches. If 0 searches are done, there will be 0 AdSense "hits". The "fiduciary duty" to shareholders seems pretty far fetched and could be argued the other way as well. Enforcing SOPA will be a heavy financial burden and negatively impact future performance, therefore not using every means necessary to block SOPA is also a breach of "fiduciary duty".
- biot 15y agoI completely agree that it could go both ways. However, anybody can sue for anything these days. While opposing SOPA is the responsible choice, I can see a potential shareholder suit claiming that opposing SOPA could be done without taking drastic measures (ie: a blackout rather than a dismissible message) that immediately impact revenue.
- sim0n 15y agoA lot of people who I have on Facebook aren't especially tech-minded but still share a lot of content from Reddit. It will be a good thing if they learn about SOPA.
- sliverstorm 15y agoOne potential win is, it becomes more personal to redditors. Hopefully it could spur some that have been resting into action.
- lotu 15y agoGoogle blacking out risks appearing as a threat, which would be viewed very poorly by many people. It would be similar to a major oil company deciding to stop drilling for oil unless they got some subsidies passed.
- notatoad 15y agoreddit is kind of preaching to the choir here, but reddit is a big site and hopefully this move will help convince other big sites that they should join in the blackout.
- dutchbrit 15y agoWhat about blacking out all results and have a button - Support our efforts to fight SOPA to see your results? :)
- The_Sponge 15y agoI use a subreddit to collaborate with team members. I know this is an extreme situation, and an odd use, but it's damn inconvenient.
- dt7 15y agoWell, its not like Reddit is never down anyway. At least this time you have some notice :)
- jeremydavid 15y agoImagine how inconvenient it will be if SOPA passes and reddit is shut down. Think of this as an opportunity to come up with a contingency plan for your group collaboration :)
- untog 15y agoWell that's kind of the point, isn't it? If SOPA passes then your access to Reddit will never be guaranteed. It's damn inconvenient, but it's small fry compared to the possible inconvenience in the future.
- jf 15y agoExactly. The_Sponge, I propose that your team spend some of that day contacting your representatives and tell them how SOPA/PIPA will impact your real world, everyday work.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- jc4p 15y agoIf applicable (I have no clue how you're using a subreddit to help you) just use Trello for the day.
- neilk 15y agoI had no idea a subreddit could be useful for that. How big is your team? Aren't most of the features superfluous to team communication (upvotes, karma, automatic expiry of articles...) ? Are you a Reddit Enterprise(tm) customer?
- Mizza 15y agoHow would HN feel about joining in support? I would be in favor of it. My god.. the productive output of Silicon Valley is going to triple on the 18th!
- jf 15y agoI would love to see HN join in support. PG, what are your thoughts on that?
- redthrowaway 15y agoEven though I doubt there's anyone on here who actually supports SOPA, this could at least get people to do something about it and call their representatives on that day.
- jmduke 15y agoHonestly, I don't see the point. The effectiveness in the blackout is going to lie in its ability to inform users who might not be aware of the threat SOPA poses: I think the number of regular perusers of HN who are unaware of SOPA is middling at best, which might not be true of Reddit, Wikipedia, or some of the bigger sites considering the blackout. That being said, anything helps, and this is the sort of issue where action trumps inaction.
- prophetjohn 15y agoThere are still going to be very few Redditors who are not aware of SOPA and its implications, even if a larger percentage than HN. I started typing up a post similar to yours until I stopped to think about it. I think that there is more to this than just awareness. Reddit going down for a day, not only makes those few aware who were not already, but it stands to motivate those that were aware and had not yet taken action. Another big point for me is that Reddit taking the first step may motivate other web companies to follow suit. In that respect, I definitely support HN participating.
- chollida1 15y ago> There are still going to be very few Redditors who are not aware of SOPA and its implications, I don't think this is true. Reddit now reaches a very large and wide non techie audience. I have no data, but I'd guess more than half of redditors haven't heard of SOPA.
- dustyreagan 15y agoSomeone needs to write a universal javascript plugin that would create an interstitial landing page with info and action items about SOPA. The user could then dismiss the interstitial page, and it'd roll up as a bar at the top of the site. The javascript would be easy for site admins to add, and it would be easy to distribute. I don't want to make this, but I'd add it to my sites if it was designed well. :)
- rogerclark 15y agoreddit is a horrible hellhole
- zerostar07 15y agoDo i smell an opportunity for competing sites? interesting...
- jonursenbach 15y agoGood for them, though I still find it odd how silent Digg has been on this matter even though it would most definitely completely destroy them.
- brezina 15y agono matter what site does the blackout, they need to run a simple web app that generates your representative's phone number based on zip code.
- bryanh 15y agoOne up that: do HTML5 location services + geo IP, optional zip if that is inaccurate.
- r4vik 15y agotumblr did this and it generated a massive number of calls, we need to make it as simple as including a script tag and co-ordinate with everyone
- Aloisius 15y agoPersonally I think linking to a donation form with the members of congress who oppose SOPA and the challengers of those who support it would have more of an impact.
- louislouis 15y agoA prime example of why money needs to be taken out of politics. It takes all this shouting from the 99% but nothing speaks to the congress members like the sweet dollars of the 1%. If wikipedia was able to raise $20M in donations, an anti-sopa fund raised for lobbying could be quite effective, but then congress members would look utterly corrupt.
- Sniffnoy 15y agoDoes anyone know what happened to Wikipedia's proposed blackout? It would be best if the different websites doing this could coordinate.
- jebblue 15y agoAm I the only HN participant who is on the fence about SOPA?
- lwat 15y agoExplain?
- icebraining 15y agoProbably. Personally, I like due process and being considered innocent until proven guilty. Don't you?
- 9999 15y agoMaybe? Even if you agree with the underlying goal of SOPA (protecting rights holders), the bill is horribly written and grants far too much power to copyright holders without any transparency. So in what sense are you on the fence? You agree with the underlying goal, but not the execution?
- danilocampos 15y agoIt would seem so. But I suspect, given the obnoxiousness of the bill, its proponents and its consequences, you're more likely the only HN participant who hasn't read much about SOPA and is willing to say so out loud.
- jebblue 15y ago>> you're more likely the only HN participant who hasn't read much about SOPA You're judging me. >> is willing to say so out loud. Now you're passively aggressively insulting me.
- burgerbrain 15y agoWhat do you think that SOPA is/does?
- gojomo 15y agoWhy not a smart missile rather than a nuke? Sites should only go completely dark for those users who appear to be geographically inside the district of SOPA-supporting legislators. "Your legislator wants an censorship-without-trial kill-switch for internet sites, so we're on strike against your district today."
- DennisP 15y agoEven people outside the district can donate to opponents. There are also plenty of legislators who aren't committed yet, and it's probably even more important to pressure them.
- gojomo 15y agoOh, you show an interstitial to everyone. It's just milder for those in 'friendly' districts, medium-annoying when the legislator is uncommitted, and draconian when the legislator is pro-SOPA. And because of the large size of Senatorial districts (states) and how many Senators are PIPA supporters, plenty of people get the near-total blackout. The people who get, 'attaboys' for having better local legislators can still be directed to the nearest (or most vulnerable) problem legislators, or fundraising campaigns. I suspect the 'sting' of being in a bad district could motivate more emotion and action than just a blanket blackout. When people call their friends/relatives in other districts and find who does and doesn't have access, there could be more buzz. A worldwide blackout just annoys people overseas with silly American parochialism. A nationwide blackout educates, somewhat, but also could be seen as a sort of 'snow day', "ah, well, let's wait it out." Differential punishment serves to both agitate the relevant voters more – "why are we unable to access reddit when Suzy in Oregon can?" – and focus the emotion against specific actionable targets.
- eridius 15y agoThat's assuming the only reason for the blackout is to pressure users into calling their legislator. Blacking out the whole site worldwide is far more effective as a means of making a statement, and as a means of getting media attention.
- kevinh 15y ago
- cyanbane 15y agoReally need Facebook/Twitter to do the same to strike a nerve with a large demographic. Google would definitely bring attention to the cause, but the ability to broadcast oneself / status on a personal level needs to be hindered to have a meaningful impact. I almost might want Google to stay online and display information about SOPA on the homepage. a la "Why is the internet blacked out today?" .. consumption/direction to information is their strength.
- zerostar07 15y agoWouldn't it be more effective if Google and Paypal threatened to move their base outside the US, so they can't be affected by SOPA?
- cobbal 15y agoSOPA is actually aimed at foreign sites; this is the motivation behind SOPA blocking at the DNS level instead of going after the companies.
- zerostar07 15y agoIt's about foreign sites, but the legal action concerns the business of american companies only. OpenDNS says they may to move the to the Cayman islands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act#Negative_impact_on_DNS.2C_DNSSEC_and_Internet_security http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act#Negative...
- cobbal 15y agoTrue, but the direct legal action wouldn't threaten Google and other businesses much (Google does run DNS servers, but it's not their main gig) so moving outside the country would accomplish very little from a technical standpoint.
- zerostar07 15y agoExample: A few injuctions from major studios against google for not removing results or banning adsense accounts or even blocking google checkout accounts on time could result in major losses for the company. If they were based outside the US, they'd be protected.
- cobbal 15y agoMy mistake, with all the spotlight going to the DNS side of SOPA I had forgotten it also included requirements about payments.
- c1sc0 15y agoI'm 100% in favor of HN blacking out. On top of that, I have another 'non-violent' proposal for how techies could protest this: Let's create 'freedom.txt' files in the root of our servers. A simple text-file stating why the owner of the site (YOU!) opposes internet censorship. It's a simple & geeky way to make a statement. You can do it right now and it should make it a bit easier to exactly count how many people oppose this bullshit. Here's an example I wrote a week ago but kinda neglected promoting until now: http://fr.anc.is/2012/01/01/freedom.txt/ http://fr.anc.is/2012/01/01/freedom.txt/
- guard-of-terra 15y agoThere's no point in blacking out for the whole world. Sites should black out for US users while being available from outside. Bonus point: US users learning to use VPN etc.
- c1sc0 15y agoQuite the contrary: this is a worldwide problem. E.g. I'm from Europe & I despise our politician's tendency to copy/paste US law.
- guard-of-terra 15y agoThen blackout on a separate day. To educate people about your specific problem.
- c1sc0 15y agoNo, the purpose of a coordinated worldwide blackout is to make it clear that this is a transnational problem. It is not 'my specific problem'. US outsiders need to make clear that they are watching you & will not tolerate this kind of shit in their home-countries.
- Joakal 15y agoOh no, please stop focusing only on SOPA or lesser part of Protect IP! Those two are just two battles by anti-Internet groups. They tried one tactic with SOPA to fool people in thinking it was delayed until next year: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/nfrru/sopa_has_not_been_postponed_to_2012_the_committee/ http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/nfrru/sopa_has_n... There had been many anti-Internet attempts implemented and proposed: SOPA, DMCA, PROTECT-IP, COICA, CEST, OPENA, ACTA and more. PLEASE. Demand Internet Freedom bills in place of such bills. Protect not only current and future Internet businesses, but also the future of children's access to knowledge and ability to share (Some people think the anti-SOPA are just Internet companies). For example, making it illegal for government or corporations to shut down domains without due process. There's more potential in the SOPA by simply re-wording it to be pro-Internet Freedom. Bonus: It'll make such Internet Freedom bills a template for pushing Internet Freedom on other countries! Especially UK and Australia. If they won't stop outlawing/controlling parts of the Internet, then we need to fight back in outlawing anti-Internet attempts. The war against the Internet will continue after SOPA. Edit: I sent a message to reddit admins again (several attempts already in past). If you know any of the reddit admins, please pass on this Internet Freedom message quickly! 2nd Edit: hueypriest acknowledges the message: "We are well aware that the fight will continue long after SOPA/PIPA, and that this is just the first battle."
- Cieplak 15y agoHow can such a bill be worded to divert criticism that the bill might interfere with the government's ability to fight "terrorism"?
- Joakal 15y agoIt's impractical to fight terrorism in taking down domains. Analogy: It's like bombing a town because one house is harbouring terrorists. Domain analogy: It's like taking down youtube.com because one channel is harbouring terrorist videos.
- Cieplak 15y agoAbsolutely; I would go even farther and call it absurd. I want to see open-internet bills in Congress. I want to know how to implement such a bill so that it can coexist with something like the Patriot Act.
- swalsh 15y agoTo reinforce the chain reaction ramifications of SOPA, Imgur, a site very dependent on the success of Reddit will also be impacted.
- maeon3 15y agoI'll be taking down my site down Jan 18 as well.
- nextparadigms 15y agoWhile putting up an interstitial to warn about SOPA/PIPA and get people to call their representatives would be almost as effective in its short term impact on those 2 bills, I think completely blacking out is a much more effective long term strategy. The chance that politicians would try something like SOPA/PIPA anytime soon, if all major sites go dark in that day, is much smaller. Showing an interstitial could be a form of protest against anything. Going dark is clearly a form of protest against censorship. And I don't think any politician will want to be associated with that in the future.
- savrajsingh 15y agoJan 18 will be a productive day.
- drhowarddrfine 15y agoHere is the only thing that will happen: doing this will just piss people off that they can't get to their site. Then, by the end of the next day, no one will remember it happened at all.
- cl8ton 15y agoNot only do I support this on Jan 18... I will be posting links to Reddit and hopefully HN on all the non technical forums (auto racing) I visit in support!
- efader 15y agoWrong idea. Boycott companies that support SOPA. Look at what happened to Go Daddy.
- maccylo 15y agoWhat exactly? They're not bankrupt, just gained some bad rep and continued working.
- pathik 15y agoNo offense, but Reddit going dark will affect only us. No one else will even notice. If something like Wikipedia goes dark, that would be something. Everyone will be forced to take notice.
- molmalo 15y agoWouldn't it be better if instead of going dark, every single page displays a full window message, explaing the situation about SOPA, showing the picture, name, phone number of the us representative for the area of the visitor (using geoip). And letting the user close that message after a certain amount of time. That way, the users will still be able to coordinate their actions. If not, you are giving SOPA supporters a big help, by generating chaos between the ones who opposes the bill.
- rmc 15y agoI kinda wish they would just black it out for the USA only (based on IP address). Then have a message saying "The USA would lose out on the tech race"
- freehunter 15y agoIf the US shuts down a website, it affects the whole world. Don't think other governments aren't planning something similar.
- rmc 15y agoI think it should be done to convince USA policymakers to wake up. Not all countries copy USA in all laws (cf. EU employment rights), so this "USA-only blackout" might convince USA policymakers that SOPA will make the USA unattractive
- gumba 15y agoSo SOPA is not that bad after all. ;-)
- Pelayo 15y agoIs blacking out HN really necessary? Is there anyone here that doesn't know about SOPA/PIPA and the threat they represent?(I would ask the same about reddit but since I don't read the site I don't know if they have a broader demo) I suppose the whole point in doing the blackout would be to draw attention to people who haven't realized there is problem.
- helium 15y agoI wish Reddit would make their planned anti SOPA page available as a template for other sites that wish to show their solidarity and join them on the day.
- Unregistered 15y agoCan't help thinking it's a better strategy for everyone to stay open, and use the day's revenue for lobbying. money talks.
- cookiecaper 15y agoAssuming this spreads, I believe a potential ramification of major sites blacking out would be new laws that would attempt to make such black outs illegal. It could be seen as equivalent to strikes in essential service industries like transportation. Such strikes are semi-regulated and governments can and have ordered strikers back on the job to maintain public order. I see this possibility as a potentially major unintended consequence of putting Facebook "on strike".
- nkohari 15y agoFacebook is in no way as vital to public order as the transportation system. Further, there's no way the government can force a private corporation to do anything, short of nationalizing it (and good luck there).
- monochromatic 15y agoI really don't understand the point of this on reddit. EVERYONE on reddit has been hearing about SOPA continually for the last month. You don't raise awareness of an issue by putting it in front of people who already know about it.
- tomjen3 15y agoSo if they go dark for SOPA, why not NDAA? that one was even worse. No point in internet access when you are dead. Or what about a military action against Iran -- surely millions death from radiation poising would be bad, even if they aren't US citizens? Or what about the Iraq war? Reddit was around then.
- iuguy 15y agoFrom this year, January 18th will forever be known as the Internet's most productive day.