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Weren't we boycotting UAE for similar situation?

by satya71 4y ago

nine_zeros 4y ago
If Americans knew the reality of legal immigration in America, they would never call themselves land of immigrants.
- tristor 4y ago
  I don't think that follows from the article. This company was committing crimes, immigration and wire fraud, human trafficking, and labor violations. I don't think this situation reflects the "reality of legal immigration in America", emphasis on /legal/.
  - nine_zeros 4y ago
    I don't think you realize that it is the law that enables companies to abuse "legal" hoping-to-be-immigrants. And I emphasize "legal".
    - tristor 4y ago
      Considering that every action taken by these companies was illegal, I don't know what you mean by "the law that enables companies to abuse". I'm actually deeply in favor of immigration reform in the US, but human trafficking is not created by the law, it is blatantly illegal. The illegality doesn't even begin in this case in the article with the US, but with the coyotes in India that charged these men $20k USD for them to come to the US to work, when in fact legally it should be the other way around, the visa sponsoring entity cannot charge you for relocation costs, and may pay for them (but is not required to do so).
      - nine_zeros 4y ago
        The way US immigration law allows abuse is by making it so complicated that coyotes and bad employers thrive. If the legal immigration process was as simple as applying to the DMV (note, I am talking about the application, not about approvals), then coyotes wouldn't even have a business model.
      - lexarflash8g 4y ago
        Its modern-day slavery -- the problem is way worse in the Middle East -- mostly construction workers and laborers -- and its not just labor from India, but other South-asian countries like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Nepal. In America, most unskilled labor comes from Latin American countries -- jobs that really no one wants to do
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Well, for better or for worse, America has been exploiting immigrants since day zero. That doesn’t stop it from being the land of immigrants, as that is in fact what it is. It just means our ancestors were all, for the most part, exploited - some more than others, sure, but it’s still there. I know it is for my ancestors.
- rayiner 4y ago
  America is one of the few countries in the world where multiple waves of immigrants (including very poor ones) came to economically surpass the original founding population. Even excluding the ones that primarily came here through selective immigration filters like H1B, you have: Filipinos, Lebanese, Italians, Greeks, Swedes, Poles, and Norwegians all of whom earn more than Americans of English descent. Koreans, Germans, and Irish, who mostly came here as refugees or bottom-rung labor, are just slightly behind. Indians, the folks who are the subject of this article, are of course the highest income group in the US. Sure, most of them were elites in India as well. But they’re elites in a country where a $15,000/year income puts you in the top 1%. They aren’t rich because they brought lots of money with them; they are able to move into the upper middle class in the US despite coming here with relatively modest assets and incomes back home.
  - nine_zeros 4y ago
    I think you are conflating America of the past with America of today.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      It’s the same today, probably better. A Latino immigrant kid who grows up at the 25th percentile income level will reach the 43rd percentile income level on average: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/135/2/711/5687353 https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/135/2/711/5687353. In the steady state, they’ll reach the 48th percentile. Meanwhile an Asian kid raised in the bottom 20% has a 27% chance of ending up in the top 20% (Table I, Panel A). There’s no evidence immigrant mobility is slowing down. Italian Americans reached parity with British Americans around 1980, 70-80 years after the main immigration wave began: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.2050-411X.1989.tb00594.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.2050-411X..... Vietnamese Americans by contrast reached parity Briths Americans within a 40-50 year span. South Asians, of course, nearly all immigrated into “the America of today.” We didn’t have to deal with half the shit the Italians did. We are not only at the top of the income distribution, but overrepresented in everything from elite schools to corporate boardrooms. Moreover, it’s not just the highly educated immigrants that have upward mobility. My mom could not use her Bangladeshi degree here, but still made a six figure income selling furniture. Our family had zero social connections to law or finance (and didn’t even know anyone in those fields growing up) and my brother ended up as a trader on Wall Street and I ended up as a partner at a corporate law firm. My uncle came here less than a decade ago with his wife and two adult kids. They moved to a tiny two bedroom apartment in a run down part of Queens. My cousin is now getting her PhD in biochemistry. The upward mobility available to immigrants in America is insane.
diebeforei485 4y ago
UAE has vastly improved its laws. H-1B and other US visas seem barbarian compared to the new system in the UAE.

Weren't we boycotting UAE for similar situation?

nine_zeros 4y ago

If Americans knew the reality of legal immigration in America, they would never call themselves land of immigrants.

tristor 4y ago
I don't think that follows from the article. This company was committing crimes, immigration and wire fraud, human trafficking, and labor violations. I don't think this situation reflects the "reality of legal immigration in America", emphasis on /legal/.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  I don't think you realize that it is the law that enables companies to abuse "legal" hoping-to-be-immigrants. And I emphasize "legal".
  - tristor 4y ago
    Considering that every action taken by these companies was illegal, I don't know what you mean by "the law that enables companies to abuse". I'm actually deeply in favor of immigration reform in the US, but human trafficking is not created by the law, it is blatantly illegal. The illegality doesn't even begin in this case in the article with the US, but with the coyotes in India that charged these men $20k USD for them to come to the US to work, when in fact legally it should be the other way around, the visa sponsoring entity cannot charge you for relocation costs, and may pay for them (but is not required to do so).
    - nine_zeros 4y ago
      The way US immigration law allows abuse is by making it so complicated that coyotes and bad employers thrive. If the legal immigration process was as simple as applying to the DMV (note, I am talking about the application, not about approvals), then coyotes wouldn't even have a business model.
    - lexarflash8g 4y ago
      Its modern-day slavery -- the problem is way worse in the Middle East -- mostly construction workers and laborers -- and its not just labor from India, but other South-asian countries like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Nepal. In America, most unskilled labor comes from Latin American countries -- jobs that really no one wants to do
fnordpiglet 4y ago
Well, for better or for worse, America has been exploiting immigrants since day zero. That doesn’t stop it from being the land of immigrants, as that is in fact what it is. It just means our ancestors were all, for the most part, exploited - some more than others, sure, but it’s still there. I know it is for my ancestors.
rayiner 4y ago
America is one of the few countries in the world where multiple waves of immigrants (including very poor ones) came to economically surpass the original founding population. Even excluding the ones that primarily came here through selective immigration filters like H1B, you have: Filipinos, Lebanese, Italians, Greeks, Swedes, Poles, and Norwegians all of whom earn more than Americans of English descent. Koreans, Germans, and Irish, who mostly came here as refugees or bottom-rung labor, are just slightly behind. Indians, the folks who are the subject of this article, are of course the highest income group in the US. Sure, most of them were elites in India as well. But they’re elites in a country where a $15,000/year income puts you in the top 1%. They aren’t rich because they brought lots of money with them; they are able to move into the upper middle class in the US despite coming here with relatively modest assets and incomes back home.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  I think you are conflating America of the past with America of today.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    It’s the same today, probably better. A Latino immigrant kid who grows up at the 25th percentile income level will reach the 43rd percentile income level on average: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/135/2/711/5687353 https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/135/2/711/5687353. In the steady state, they’ll reach the 48th percentile. Meanwhile an Asian kid raised in the bottom 20% has a 27% chance of ending up in the top 20% (Table I, Panel A). There’s no evidence immigrant mobility is slowing down. Italian Americans reached parity with British Americans around 1980, 70-80 years after the main immigration wave began: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.2050-411X.1989.tb00594.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.2050-411X..... Vietnamese Americans by contrast reached parity Briths Americans within a 40-50 year span. South Asians, of course, nearly all immigrated into “the America of today.” We didn’t have to deal with half the shit the Italians did. We are not only at the top of the income distribution, but overrepresented in everything from elite schools to corporate boardrooms. Moreover, it’s not just the highly educated immigrants that have upward mobility. My mom could not use her Bangladeshi degree here, but still made a six figure income selling furniture. Our family had zero social connections to law or finance (and didn’t even know anyone in those fields growing up) and my brother ended up as a trader on Wall Street and I ended up as a partner at a corporate law firm. My uncle came here less than a decade ago with his wife and two adult kids. They moved to a tiny two bedroom apartment in a run down part of Queens. My cousin is now getting her PhD in biochemistry. The upward mobility available to immigrants in America is insane.

diebeforei485 4y ago

UAE has vastly improved its laws. H-1B and other US visas seem barbarian compared to the new system in the UAE.