4 ms·

I guess I'm a bit torn on this. Even if we had an extremely fair and equitable society with growth I imagine there'd still be plenty of people who feel rejected

I guess I'm a bit torn on this. Even if we had an extremely fair and equitable society with growth I imagine there'd still be plenty of people who feel rejected or lonesome at times. Or just like the feeling that these drugs give them above normal drugs. I drink alcohol a couple times a week and do edibles once a month. I'm sure some would argue I'm not fulfilled but I think the easier explanation is that a lot of times doing mind-altering drugs is...fun? And can be social.

newsclues 4y ago
That sounds like a healthy amount of drugs. For people with self control like that, I think it would be healthy to trip once or twice a year and use stimulants (cocaine) for a party once a year. A heroin vacation to an opium den on occasion sounds wonderful. I certainly have used drugs socially (LSD in clubs or concerts can be fun), but also use them cannabis alone frequently.
- arghnoname 4y ago
  This is the crazy thing about this whole issue. Some people can use drugs that are extremely harmful responsibly. It's a once-in-a-while excursion away from ordinary life. There's nothing wrong with having a scary drug, like heroin, a few times a year...except that for some people it leads to their entire life unraveling. This idea that we're all the same and because drugs are physically addictive (i.e., sustained use leads to withdrawal of use ceases) means everyone would become addicts if they tried it is a D.A.R.E. style falsehood. It's true for some, but seemingly not most. Even drugs/activities that don't seem physically very addictive, like pot and gambling, seem to have their addicts. I question what proportion of addiction is chemical and what is something deeper going on. It's a pity though. I don't think I'm prone to addiction, but for the sake of my fellow humans and a functioning society I reluctantly accept that these things shouldn't be widely accessible. I've become much more of a prohibitionist as I've gotten older.
  - elektrontamer 4y ago
    I appreciate the selflessness and pragmatism. Many responsible users are much more dismissive of prohibition.
    - notch656c 4y ago
      It seems selfless but not pragmatic. Prohibition doesn't seem to make the opiate problem smaller, it just makes it more dangerous for users, the public, and the people selling it.
HEmanZ 4y ago
I have known quite a few friends from earlier in my life who became serious addicts and ruined their lives or ended their lives by it. I would not describe a single one as having started using because they were mad at society, sad, or lonesome. It was always some strange kind of strange, arrogant fetishization of drug-life and crime-life. There is an almost "drug life is THE life, and everyone else is lame" attitude in many circles, and I got a little too close to comfort to falling into it at one point in my life. This doesn't mean there aren't a hundred reasons people get trapped in drugs. But a very real one is just because many people come to believe it's cool and tough, and end up fetishizing it until it's too late to get out. And like I said, in my hometown, this was the predominant reason.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Were they bored, did they not have exciting career or family prospects, was it ennui? Low-grade emotions can lead to addictive behaviors, not only high intensity trauma. The decision to subscribe to a malignant anti-authority lifestyle still shows that something is wrong, if it becomes so attractive an alternative to forsake one's life for.
  - HEmanZ 4y ago
    Reading HN, I get the strong suspicion many people didn’t grow up around drugs. People don’t always think they are throwing away their lives. They think “this makes me cool” and “it’s no big deal” and “anyone who’s anyone does it”. Often there’s the confident assertion “this ruins other peoples lives but I’m too good/special for that”. And often they don’t even realize it’s a problem, even when they’ve hit rock bottom, even when they’ve ruined their families lives for their drug addiction. I’m not claiming other, much sadder reasons don’t exist. Or that we shouldn’t do something to help people survive and recover, like this vaccine that could mean thousands of lives saved, thousands of fewer mothers crying at funerals. But there is also a lot of personal responsibility involved, and we can’t make this claim, that I see so many people on HN try to make, that people who have ruined their life (and more importantly, often their families lives) thru their own choices have no responsibility. That it’s all fault of vague “society” and if we just ban together with <vague handwavy socialist/utopian/whatever vision>, that people will stop making bad decisions about their lives.

newsclues 4y ago

That sounds like a healthy amount of drugs. For people with self control like that, I think it would be healthy to trip once or twice a year and use stimulants (cocaine) for a party once a year. A heroin vacation to an opium den on occasion sounds wonderful. I certainly have used drugs socially (LSD in clubs or concerts can be fun), but also use them cannabis alone frequently.

arghnoname 4y ago
This is the crazy thing about this whole issue. Some people can use drugs that are extremely harmful responsibly. It's a once-in-a-while excursion away from ordinary life. There's nothing wrong with having a scary drug, like heroin, a few times a year...except that for some people it leads to their entire life unraveling. This idea that we're all the same and because drugs are physically addictive (i.e., sustained use leads to withdrawal of use ceases) means everyone would become addicts if they tried it is a D.A.R.E. style falsehood. It's true for some, but seemingly not most. Even drugs/activities that don't seem physically very addictive, like pot and gambling, seem to have their addicts. I question what proportion of addiction is chemical and what is something deeper going on. It's a pity though. I don't think I'm prone to addiction, but for the sake of my fellow humans and a functioning society I reluctantly accept that these things shouldn't be widely accessible. I've become much more of a prohibitionist as I've gotten older.
- elektrontamer 4y ago
  I appreciate the selflessness and pragmatism. Many responsible users are much more dismissive of prohibition.
  - notch656c 4y ago
    It seems selfless but not pragmatic. Prohibition doesn't seem to make the opiate problem smaller, it just makes it more dangerous for users, the public, and the people selling it.

HEmanZ 4y ago

I have known quite a few friends from earlier in my life who became serious addicts and ruined their lives or ended their lives by it. I would not describe a single one as having started using because they were mad at society, sad, or lonesome. It was always some strange kind of strange, arrogant fetishization of drug-life and crime-life. There is an almost "drug life is THE life, and everyone else is lame" attitude in many circles, and I got a little too close to comfort to falling into it at one point in my life. This doesn't mean there aren't a hundred reasons people get trapped in drugs. But a very real one is just because many people come to believe it's cool and tough, and end up fetishizing it until it's too late to get out. And like I said, in my hometown, this was the predominant reason.

Apocryphon 4y ago
Were they bored, did they not have exciting career or family prospects, was it ennui? Low-grade emotions can lead to addictive behaviors, not only high intensity trauma. The decision to subscribe to a malignant anti-authority lifestyle still shows that something is wrong, if it becomes so attractive an alternative to forsake one's life for.
- HEmanZ 4y ago
  Reading HN, I get the strong suspicion many people didn’t grow up around drugs. People don’t always think they are throwing away their lives. They think “this makes me cool” and “it’s no big deal” and “anyone who’s anyone does it”. Often there’s the confident assertion “this ruins other peoples lives but I’m too good/special for that”. And often they don’t even realize it’s a problem, even when they’ve hit rock bottom, even when they’ve ruined their families lives for their drug addiction. I’m not claiming other, much sadder reasons don’t exist. Or that we shouldn’t do something to help people survive and recover, like this vaccine that could mean thousands of lives saved, thousands of fewer mothers crying at funerals. But there is also a lot of personal responsibility involved, and we can’t make this claim, that I see so many people on HN try to make, that people who have ruined their life (and more importantly, often their families lives) thru their own choices have no responsibility. That it’s all fault of vague “society” and if we just ban together with <vague handwavy socialist/utopian/whatever vision>, that people will stop making bad decisions about their lives.