3 ms·

Copper is superior. I specifically went out of my way to find a house with large swaths of the plumbing done with copper. Pretty neat to have anti-microbial pro

Copper is superior. I specifically went out of my way to find a house with large swaths of the plumbing done with copper. Pretty neat to have anti-microbial properties built in.

xyzzyz 4y ago
Copper inferior for productivity, which is what we are talking about here.
_Adam 4y ago
My pipes are all copper, and the hot water contains a non trivial amount of lead (from the solder used to join the pipes). I had it tested - around 20 ppb. We don't drink or cook with the hot water, but in theory if the plumbing was PEX we could.
- Der_Einzige 4y ago
  What year was your house built? I really hope this is not a risk on things built after 2000 (or 1980?)
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Lead flux went away like 45 years ago. But sometimes galvanized pipe has some amount of lead in the zinc coating, and a mixed cooper/galvanized installation can accelerate corrosion. Post-Flint, lead is the new asbestos. Because the standard is zero tolerance, there’s alot of noise on the topic. PEX is great, but I’d personally always go for cooper if I could afford it. We tend to learn new things about plastic and risks over time.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    From 1986-2011 the EPA/congress defined "lead free" pipes as containing no more than 8% lead. In 1996, they banned plumbing that is not "lead free" from being sold. In 2011, the "lead free" definition was strengthened to a weighted average of 0.25%.
- RetpolineDrama 4y ago
  For new construction the ideal is solderless copper. You use pure copper pipes + ProPress. It's fast and the cleanest you can get outside of exotic glass plumbing.
jessaustin 4y ago
Better keep that copper out of exterior walls. It doesn't stretch and rebound like PEX when the water freezes. Those who care about homeopathy can run their drinking water through a loop of copper.
- rascul 4y ago
  Ideally there wouldn't be water lines in exterior walls. But not everything is ideal.
  - jessaustin 4y ago
    For sure; better design would move most supply lines to interior walls. However, most owners of standalone homes want to be able to look out a window situated above their kitchen sink. It's possible to have supply lines sticking out of the floor, but that complicates inspection and cabinet installation and also it sucks to have to search for one's undersink supplies behind those pipes. Another factor, in concrete slab construction, is that we want drain lines to be as short as possible, because even though it's possible to get those correct before the pour it doesn't always happen. Concentrating fixtures in one corner of the house tends to force supply lines into exterior walls. Maybe I should hire better plumbers, and maybe I should live where it doesn't get cold, but until then maybe I should just use PEX.
- adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
  copper does have pretty well documented anti bacterial properties. there's a reason that lots of iuds are made of copper.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    AFAIK the effect is also significant enough that using copper on public high-touch surfaces (doorknobs or push plates, hand rails) can meaningfully decrease disease transmission rates.
latchkey 4y ago
I think there are also ways to help with that. Whole house filters (to get more than just microbes) as well as copper stubs from the walls. https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-8-in-x-3-4-in-PEX-Copper-Stub-Out-90-Elbow-with-Wall-Flange-P34-SO8F/308557192 https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-8-in-x-3-4-...
wil421 4y ago
I just paid $8000 to get my copper redone in PEX. After the tenth pin hole leak and lots of shark bite fixes, I am not fond of copper.
- systems_glitch 4y ago
  Good chance the original work was done with a bad batch of pipe, or worse, some contractor used Type M (thinwall) pipe.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    Another interesting thing I learned about just yesterday! Type M vs. Type L. Apparently it also depends on the ph of the water... https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/copper-pipe-types/ https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/copper-pipe-types/
    - systems_glitch 4y ago
      Also your AHJ and plumber. I want to say in NY we were forbidden to use Type M for anything other than hydronic heating. I would argue that a good plumber would recommend PEX over piping a house in Type M.
- RetpolineDrama 4y ago
  Well I hope you plan to move/sell, in my opinion PEX will be banned in 20 years and you'll have a hard time selling without remediation. PEX is absolutely loaded with carcinogenic compounds and endocrine disruptors that actively leech into your water, especially if you have a hot water recirculation system (standard/code on new homes) >After the tenth pin hole leak and lots of shark bite fixes, I am not fond of copper. It's my understanding that the vast majority of pinhole copper leaks are caused by poor solder jobs. Solder gets inside the pipe and causes a vortex that can eat through the copper. The solution to this is to use solderless copper ProPress fittings for everything. Not only is this much more clean and faster to install, but the inside of the pipe is flush/smooth with the fitting.

Copper is superior. I specifically went out of my way to find a house with large swaths of the plumbing done with copper. Pretty neat to have anti-microbial properties built in.

xyzzyz 4y ago

Copper inferior for productivity, which is what we are talking about here.

_Adam 4y ago

My pipes are all copper, and the hot water contains a non trivial amount of lead (from the solder used to join the pipes). I had it tested - around 20 ppb. We don't drink or cook with the hot water, but in theory if the plumbing was PEX we could.

Der_Einzige 4y ago
What year was your house built? I really hope this is not a risk on things built after 2000 (or 1980?)
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Lead flux went away like 45 years ago. But sometimes galvanized pipe has some amount of lead in the zinc coating, and a mixed cooper/galvanized installation can accelerate corrosion. Post-Flint, lead is the new asbestos. Because the standard is zero tolerance, there’s alot of noise on the topic. PEX is great, but I’d personally always go for cooper if I could afford it. We tend to learn new things about plastic and risks over time.
- kube-system 4y ago
  From 1986-2011 the EPA/congress defined "lead free" pipes as containing no more than 8% lead. In 1996, they banned plumbing that is not "lead free" from being sold. In 2011, the "lead free" definition was strengthened to a weighted average of 0.25%.
RetpolineDrama 4y ago
For new construction the ideal is solderless copper. You use pure copper pipes + ProPress. It's fast and the cleanest you can get outside of exotic glass plumbing.

jessaustin 4y ago

Better keep that copper out of exterior walls. It doesn't stretch and rebound like PEX when the water freezes. Those who care about homeopathy can run their drinking water through a loop of copper.

rascul 4y ago
Ideally there wouldn't be water lines in exterior walls. But not everything is ideal.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  For sure; better design would move most supply lines to interior walls. However, most owners of standalone homes want to be able to look out a window situated above their kitchen sink. It's possible to have supply lines sticking out of the floor, but that complicates inspection and cabinet installation and also it sucks to have to search for one's undersink supplies behind those pipes. Another factor, in concrete slab construction, is that we want drain lines to be as short as possible, because even though it's possible to get those correct before the pour it doesn't always happen. Concentrating fixtures in one corner of the house tends to force supply lines into exterior walls. Maybe I should hire better plumbers, and maybe I should live where it doesn't get cold, but until then maybe I should just use PEX.
adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
copper does have pretty well documented anti bacterial properties. there's a reason that lots of iuds are made of copper.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  AFAIK the effect is also significant enough that using copper on public high-touch surfaces (doorknobs or push plates, hand rails) can meaningfully decrease disease transmission rates.

latchkey 4y ago

I think there are also ways to help with that. Whole house filters (to get more than just microbes) as well as copper stubs from the walls. https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-8-in-x-3-4-in-PEX-Copper-Stub-Out-90-Elbow-with-Wall-Flange-P34-SO8F/308557192 https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-8-in-x-3-4-...

wil421 4y ago

I just paid $8000 to get my copper redone in PEX. After the tenth pin hole leak and lots of shark bite fixes, I am not fond of copper.

systems_glitch 4y ago
Good chance the original work was done with a bad batch of pipe, or worse, some contractor used Type M (thinwall) pipe.
- latchkey 4y ago
  Another interesting thing I learned about just yesterday! Type M vs. Type L. Apparently it also depends on the ph of the water... https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/copper-pipe-types/ https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/copper-pipe-types/
  - systems_glitch 4y ago
    Also your AHJ and plumber. I want to say in NY we were forbidden to use Type M for anything other than hydronic heating. I would argue that a good plumber would recommend PEX over piping a house in Type M.
RetpolineDrama 4y ago
Well I hope you plan to move/sell, in my opinion PEX will be banned in 20 years and you'll have a hard time selling without remediation. PEX is absolutely loaded with carcinogenic compounds and endocrine disruptors that actively leech into your water, especially if you have a hot water recirculation system (standard/code on new homes) >After the tenth pin hole leak and lots of shark bite fixes, I am not fond of copper. It's my understanding that the vast majority of pinhole copper leaks are caused by poor solder jobs. Solder gets inside the pipe and causes a vortex that can eat through the copper. The solution to this is to use solderless copper ProPress fittings for everything. Not only is this much more clean and faster to install, but the inside of the pipe is flush/smooth with the fitting.