4 ms·

Corruption was a massive problem in USA industry as well as slowdowns due to legal red tape. My guess is incompetent government is at the root of the problem.

Corruption was a massive problem in USA industry as well as slowdowns due to legal red tape. My guess is incompetent government is at the root of the problem. The more you scale red tape, the harder it is to do anything. Look at the California high speed rail. Corrupt governments make far more money by slowing down a project and using it as a washing machine to extract rents. Getting large public projects to misspend their funds on red tape, lawyers and other while delaying building is way more profitable than just letting any construction project simply get the job done fast. The corruption of the government itself and hybrid with larger construction companies very likely incentivized slow and never complete construction. Why would you want the work done fast when drawing it out and slowing it down is far more profitable, to milk it forever:

markus_zhang 4y ago
Red tape in many cases is simply an excuse for more corruption or stronger interest groups IMHO. It puts a legal stamp on a lot of things so that ordinary people cannot argue that. That also makes me think that SWE should either break all those red tapes or put up their own. Nowadays they are simply being milked by everyone else who is behind a red tape or a stamp or a certification or something similar.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >It puts a legal stamp on a lot of things so that ordinary people cannot argue that. Ordinary people can argue it. They'll just get argued back at and mired by the other 50% of people who will knee jerk defend the government and the government and the interest groups will laugh all the way to the bank.
Mechanical9 4y ago
With respect to incompetent government, I like to share this opinion whenever possible: The US government and US state governments are incompetent due to constant gridlock. Incentives of politicians within our governments are similarly to draw out all processes since employment is not based on performance or promises kept, but is instead guaranteed for a fixed amount of time. Politicians can continually base their re-election on the fact that "the system is broken", while they themselves are doing nothing to fix it or are not able to do anything to fix it. Having separately elected house, senate, and president is a primary source of gridlock. Each body can reject a legislative change, while none can effectively create change. The only way laws can be passed in this system is under a very rare set of conditions. When those conditions are present (government shutdown imminent, filibuster eliminated, plurality requirements reduced) you see large omnibus bills pushed through as fast as possible, without time to adequately vet the details. From an engineering perspective, this would be like pushing a few massive commits every few years rather than making regular bug fixes as needed. As such, our laws are buggy and unmaintained. Unfortunately, this leads many to believe that regulations generally are ineffective rather than the poor implementations of such being ineffective. Poorly written legislation puts more pressure on the judicial system to litigate between the lines. This is an externality that is extremely expensive for every individual and company to have to deal with. I advocate for a more parliamentary style system where politicians continued careers are based on their effectiveness and continued approval rather than fixed terms. There are plenty of ways to ensure proper checks and balances without stopping government dead in it's tracks.
pixl97 4y ago
Please don't ignore that most of these regulations exist because builders will do whatever they can to profit as much as possible, generally to the disadvantage of the buyer that is typically ignorant of the risks of a home.
Andrex 4y ago
How much of the red tape is needed vs. unnecessary? I'm glad lead isn't being used anymore and wheelchair access is required, among other things, but I can see things getting nitpicky and senseless real quick. My mom's antique-style shop had to close due to some really strict fire regulations she couldn't do anything about (another store setup a thin wall between their store and hers' and she had been operating for over a year). Fire marshall just walked in one day and said "you're shut down," like something out of Seinfeld[1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mom_%26_Pop_Store#:~:text=While%20at%20the%20store%2C%20Kramer%27s%20nose%20starts%20to%20bleed.%20When%20he%20lies%20down%20to%20stop%20it%2C%20he%20notices%20wires%20hanging%20out%20of%20the%20ceiling%20and%20advises%20Mom%20and%20Pop%20to%20call%20an%20electrician.%20Mom%20and%20Pop%20can%27t%20afford%20to%20bring%20the%20electrical%20installation%20up%20to%20the%20building%20code%2C%20so%20they%20close%20the%20store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mom_%26_Pop_Store#:~:text=...

markus_zhang 4y ago

Red tape in many cases is simply an excuse for more corruption or stronger interest groups IMHO. It puts a legal stamp on a lot of things so that ordinary people cannot argue that. That also makes me think that SWE should either break all those red tapes or put up their own. Nowadays they are simply being milked by everyone else who is behind a red tape or a stamp or a certification or something similar.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
>It puts a legal stamp on a lot of things so that ordinary people cannot argue that. Ordinary people can argue it. They'll just get argued back at and mired by the other 50% of people who will knee jerk defend the government and the government and the interest groups will laugh all the way to the bank.

Mechanical9 4y ago

With respect to incompetent government, I like to share this opinion whenever possible: The US government and US state governments are incompetent due to constant gridlock. Incentives of politicians within our governments are similarly to draw out all processes since employment is not based on performance or promises kept, but is instead guaranteed for a fixed amount of time. Politicians can continually base their re-election on the fact that "the system is broken", while they themselves are doing nothing to fix it or are not able to do anything to fix it. Having separately elected house, senate, and president is a primary source of gridlock. Each body can reject a legislative change, while none can effectively create change. The only way laws can be passed in this system is under a very rare set of conditions. When those conditions are present (government shutdown imminent, filibuster eliminated, plurality requirements reduced) you see large omnibus bills pushed through as fast as possible, without time to adequately vet the details. From an engineering perspective, this would be like pushing a few massive commits every few years rather than making regular bug fixes as needed. As such, our laws are buggy and unmaintained. Unfortunately, this leads many to believe that regulations generally are ineffective rather than the poor implementations of such being ineffective. Poorly written legislation puts more pressure on the judicial system to litigate between the lines. This is an externality that is extremely expensive for every individual and company to have to deal with. I advocate for a more parliamentary style system where politicians continued careers are based on their effectiveness and continued approval rather than fixed terms. There are plenty of ways to ensure proper checks and balances without stopping government dead in it's tracks.

pixl97 4y ago

Please don't ignore that most of these regulations exist because builders will do whatever they can to profit as much as possible, generally to the disadvantage of the buyer that is typically ignorant of the risks of a home.

Andrex 4y ago

How much of the red tape is needed vs. unnecessary? I'm glad lead isn't being used anymore and wheelchair access is required, among other things, but I can see things getting nitpicky and senseless real quick. My mom's antique-style shop had to close due to some really strict fire regulations she couldn't do anything about (another store setup a thin wall between their store and hers' and she had been operating for over a year). Fire marshall just walked in one day and said "you're shut down," like something out of Seinfeld[1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mom_%26_Pop_Store#:~:text=While%20at%20the%20store%2C%20Kramer%27s%20nose%20starts%20to%20bleed.%20When%20he%20lies%20down%20to%20stop%20it%2C%20he%20notices%20wires%20hanging%20out%20of%20the%20ceiling%20and%20advises%20Mom%20and%20Pop%20to%20call%20an%20electrician.%20Mom%20and%20Pop%20can%27t%20afford%20to%20bring%20the%20electrical%20installation%20up%20to%20the%20building%20code%2C%20so%20they%20close%20the%20store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mom_%26_Pop_Store#:~:text=...