5 ms·

This is a little tangential, but last year me and my girlfriend went to Greece for the first time. A few days after we purchased the tickets, a book came in the

This is a little tangential, but last year me and my girlfriend went to Greece for the first time. A few days after we purchased the tickets, a book came in the mail. She had ordered a tourism guide for Greece that had some recommendations about what to see, where to eat, where to stay, etc. My first reaction was along the lines of "why would we do this when we have the entire internet? Each section is written by only one person recommending what they liked, how can I rely on that?" Well, it turns out that avoiding the chaotic whirlwind of dubiously-funded and low-quality clickbait articles that come up on google when you search "things to do in _____" makes the planning process much easier. Even if the book missed a few places we would have enjoyed, it was a pleasure to read this person's insight on the areas we were in and the places they thought were worth seeing. It came with useful maps of every location we were in and gave fairly accurate pricing estimates for each activity. The simplicity of seeing a couple sentences about why you should take the time to see a historic site or scenic view, or eat at some little hole in the wall restaurant and taking them at face value makes the entire travel process so much easier and more fun. Googling around and seeing conversations about what to do on Reddit will make me second-guess every choice and wonder if I'm truly maximizing my trip, which is guaranteed to make the trip worse, regardless of what I end up seeing. Consuming data and services from the internet has become very transactional: Every article about tourism is either selling a ton of ad space or is sponsoring the recommendations, both of which make it more annoying to get data that way. It's hard to tell what the writer's financial motivations are. The same is true for google maps: some things are promoted because they paid for it, not because they are better. Books, paper maps, and other "analog" formats are written by people that want to sell the book. It's not impossible that they are getting kickbacks for their recommendations, but in this age where informational books are gasping for air, they really do need to do a good job for people to keep buying them. edit: I might as well plug the guide we used - as of this comment it's the newest version but it looks like there will be a new one in 06/23: https://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Planet-Greece-Travel-Guide/dp/1788688287 https://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Planet-Greece-Travel-Guide/dp/...

space_fountain 4y ago
Not really disagreeing, but I’d like to plug Wikivoyage which has also (for me), been very helpful
- andrepd 4y ago
  +1 for wikivoyage
ghaff 4y ago
When you're going to spend maybe a few thousand dollars to travel someplace (especially cities or other popular mainstream areas), not spending $15 or so on a Lonely Planet/Rough Guide/etc. seems like false economy. Is it definitive? No. But it's generally a well-curated guide to what people like.
- madcaptenor 4y ago
  Yes! And I'd probably pay, I don't know, fifty or a hundred bucks for a subset of Lonely Planet that's just the things I'd like.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    LP does a pretty good job on digital too. I often default to physical for this sort of thing but admit to liking LP on phone just because it's with me without extra bulk/weight.
fmajid 4y ago
I like the beautifully illustrated Dorling Kindersley books (disclaimer: my wife used to work for DK a long time ago, but in children's books, not the guides).
TheSkyHasEyes 4y ago
> low-quality clickbait articles that come up on google when you search "things to do in _____" Reddit subs are handy for that. Search term: site:reddit.com/r/denver things to do
- kimbernator 4y ago
  For me, this is about the most ineffective way to find travel advice. Reddit's great if you want to actually get a pro-con of whatever subject you're looking into, because people will argue for and against everything there simultaneously. Since I'm looking to be given recommendations, that means pretty much every recommendation will come with somebody else saying why I shouldn't "waste my time" on that thing. I'm sure this varies person to person, but I end up spending way too much time on reddit trying to find the "right" advice and never end up feeling truly satisfied with any of it.
a_e_k 4y ago
Regarding the "only one person recommending what they liked" aspect vs. second-guessing choices based on Reddit, it reminds me a bit of Segal's Law [1]: "A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segal%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segal%27s_law
quickthrower2 4y ago
Guide books can get you excited to see something, explaining the history amor significance. Sans guide book I would use tripadvisor I think you would get decent enough quality there.
rr888 4y ago
Another benefit too is that the places to stay are usually available. Pre-Internet the hotels listed in the LP were usually booked out a year ahead, now you can actually reserve spaces in the recommended acommodations.
tppiotrowski 4y ago
When Lonely Planet guides were popular, there was a trend of investors buying popular hostels/attractions from the guide and running them into the ground before the next Lonely Planet was published and warned of the demise. I haven't seen this as much lately (maybe due to rise of online reviews), but cross-referencing Lonely Planet with TripAdvisor is the sweet-spot.
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  You have to take TripAdvisor and similar sites with a very large grain of salt. I recall a low-star "review" of a nearby (and excellent) bird sanctuary where the text said something like "It would be okay if you like birds, I guess". Left unstated was why someone who didn't like birds would go to a bird sanctuary in the first place. Now, in that case, the poor quality of the review was apparent, but it's not always that obvious. Others from the local region: A (very good) seafood restaurant got panned because "the tilapia was frozen, not fresh". Given that this is Alaska and the closest place to get really fresh tilapia is, like, Louisiana, that's not overly surprising, is it? Why the hell did you order tilapia in Alaska? Have you heard of salmon? Halibut? King crab? An (excellent) old-school dive hamburger joint (in business since 1964) got slammed for not having a "vegan option". Yes, and? And so on.
  - tppiotrowski 4y ago
    Ah yes, there are many bargains to be had on Amazon if you just read the reviews in depth. Like you mentioned, a lot of bad reviews because the manual is confusing, etc even though the product is great!
gernb 4y ago
That reminds me of the difference between Japanese travel guides and US travel guides. Most travel guides in the US look like Lonely Planet, Frommers, etc. A big book of words, paragraphs of prose describing places. Most travel guides in Japan look like catalogs. Most pages are full of small pictures with small descriptions, and then an address and map page/id (maps are included in the guide). I personally find the Japanese guides more interesting because I can browse and look for something that catches my eye. With the US ones I have to spend hours reading it. Here's an example https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.risvel.com%2Fpict%2Fcom_news%2Fnews3_0491020190712165241.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.risvel.com%2Fnews%2F4910&tbnid=i4EQ2LhP75rNjM&vet=12ahUKEwitlfed1d78AhXtoI4IHYdXDXkQxiAoBXoECAAQIQ..i&docid=78C2KoaQEGPOGM&w=998&h=624&itg=1&q=%E4%BA%AC%E9%83%BD%E3%81%AE%E6%97%85%E9%9B%91%E8%AA%8C&ved=2ahUKEwitlfed1d78AhXtoI4IHYdXDXkQxiAoBXoECAAQIQ https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.risve... Note: it's the same with restaurant guides. A western guide will often just be listings with descriptions. A Japanese guide will be full of pictures of the food and/or restaurant. Of course Yelp etc have user pictures now-a-days https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/4838754876?ref_=Oct_Oct_d_omwf_d_1063540_0&pd_rd_w=t7Las&content-id=amzn1.sym.fac2ef14-1c09-466c-8d2d-2fb53a226f53&pf_rd_p=fac2ef14-1c09-466c-8d2d-2fb53a226f53&pf_rd_r=2AQZCYQY1SY4PQTGBBKB&pd_rd_wg=bBZDr&pd_rd_r=111d8f7e-be12-4ea0-9d16-5c9df4f9db67&pd_rd_i=4838754876&asin=B09922RNZV&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1 https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/4838754876?ref_=Oct_Oct_d_o... (click the previews)
mongol 4y ago
Look out for printed information, it can age quite fast. I remember travelling in China. It turns out the airport we landed in when flying domestic was a completely different one than the book described. That one was shut down, despite the book being quite recent, and a new one built, not mentioned at all. But then again, construction in China seems to happen at 5x the speed, at least, as in Europe.

space_fountain 4y ago

Not really disagreeing, but I’d like to plug Wikivoyage which has also (for me), been very helpful

andrepd 4y ago
+1 for wikivoyage

ghaff 4y ago

When you're going to spend maybe a few thousand dollars to travel someplace (especially cities or other popular mainstream areas), not spending $15 or so on a Lonely Planet/Rough Guide/etc. seems like false economy. Is it definitive? No. But it's generally a well-curated guide to what people like.

madcaptenor 4y ago
Yes! And I'd probably pay, I don't know, fifty or a hundred bucks for a subset of Lonely Planet that's just the things I'd like.
- ghaff 4y ago
  LP does a pretty good job on digital too. I often default to physical for this sort of thing but admit to liking LP on phone just because it's with me without extra bulk/weight.

fmajid 4y ago

I like the beautifully illustrated Dorling Kindersley books (disclaimer: my wife used to work for DK a long time ago, but in children's books, not the guides).

TheSkyHasEyes 4y ago

> low-quality clickbait articles that come up on google when you search "things to do in _____" Reddit subs are handy for that. Search term: site:reddit.com/r/denver things to do

kimbernator 4y ago
For me, this is about the most ineffective way to find travel advice. Reddit's great if you want to actually get a pro-con of whatever subject you're looking into, because people will argue for and against everything there simultaneously. Since I'm looking to be given recommendations, that means pretty much every recommendation will come with somebody else saying why I shouldn't "waste my time" on that thing. I'm sure this varies person to person, but I end up spending way too much time on reddit trying to find the "right" advice and never end up feeling truly satisfied with any of it.

a_e_k 4y ago

Regarding the "only one person recommending what they liked" aspect vs. second-guessing choices based on Reddit, it reminds me a bit of Segal's Law [1]: "A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segal%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segal%27s_law

quickthrower2 4y ago

Guide books can get you excited to see something, explaining the history amor significance. Sans guide book I would use tripadvisor I think you would get decent enough quality there.

rr888 4y ago

Another benefit too is that the places to stay are usually available. Pre-Internet the hotels listed in the LP were usually booked out a year ahead, now you can actually reserve spaces in the recommended acommodations.

tppiotrowski 4y ago

When Lonely Planet guides were popular, there was a trend of investors buying popular hostels/attractions from the guide and running them into the ground before the next Lonely Planet was published and warned of the demise. I haven't seen this as much lately (maybe due to rise of online reviews), but cross-referencing Lonely Planet with TripAdvisor is the sweet-spot.

Turing_Machine 4y ago
You have to take TripAdvisor and similar sites with a very large grain of salt. I recall a low-star "review" of a nearby (and excellent) bird sanctuary where the text said something like "It would be okay if you like birds, I guess". Left unstated was why someone who didn't like birds would go to a bird sanctuary in the first place. Now, in that case, the poor quality of the review was apparent, but it's not always that obvious. Others from the local region: A (very good) seafood restaurant got panned because "the tilapia was frozen, not fresh". Given that this is Alaska and the closest place to get really fresh tilapia is, like, Louisiana, that's not overly surprising, is it? Why the hell did you order tilapia in Alaska? Have you heard of salmon? Halibut? King crab? An (excellent) old-school dive hamburger joint (in business since 1964) got slammed for not having a "vegan option". Yes, and? And so on.
- tppiotrowski 4y ago
  Ah yes, there are many bargains to be had on Amazon if you just read the reviews in depth. Like you mentioned, a lot of bad reviews because the manual is confusing, etc even though the product is great!

gernb 4y ago

That reminds me of the difference between Japanese travel guides and US travel guides. Most travel guides in the US look like Lonely Planet, Frommers, etc. A big book of words, paragraphs of prose describing places. Most travel guides in Japan look like catalogs. Most pages are full of small pictures with small descriptions, and then an address and map page/id (maps are included in the guide). I personally find the Japanese guides more interesting because I can browse and look for something that catches my eye. With the US ones I have to spend hours reading it. Here's an example https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.risvel.com%2Fpict%2Fcom_news%2Fnews3_0491020190712165241.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.risvel.com%2Fnews%2F4910&tbnid=i4EQ2LhP75rNjM&vet=12ahUKEwitlfed1d78AhXtoI4IHYdXDXkQxiAoBXoECAAQIQ..i&docid=78C2KoaQEGPOGM&w=998&h=624&itg=1&q=%E4%BA%AC%E9%83%BD%E3%81%AE%E6%97%85%E9%9B%91%E8%AA%8C&ved=2ahUKEwitlfed1d78AhXtoI4IHYdXDXkQxiAoBXoECAAQIQ https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.risve... Note: it's the same with restaurant guides. A western guide will often just be listings with descriptions. A Japanese guide will be full of pictures of the food and/or restaurant. Of course Yelp etc have user pictures now-a-days https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/4838754876?ref_=Oct_Oct_d_omwf_d_1063540_0&pd_rd_w=t7Las&content-id=amzn1.sym.fac2ef14-1c09-466c-8d2d-2fb53a226f53&pf_rd_p=fac2ef14-1c09-466c-8d2d-2fb53a226f53&pf_rd_r=2AQZCYQY1SY4PQTGBBKB&pd_rd_wg=bBZDr&pd_rd_r=111d8f7e-be12-4ea0-9d16-5c9df4f9db67&pd_rd_i=4838754876&asin=B09922RNZV&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1 https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/4838754876?ref_=Oct_Oct_d_o... (click the previews)

mongol 4y ago

Look out for printed information, it can age quite fast. I remember travelling in China. It turns out the airport we landed in when flying domestic was a completely different one than the book described. That one was shut down, despite the book being quite recent, and a new one built, not mentioned at all. But then again, construction in China seems to happen at 5x the speed, at least, as in Europe.