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I am glad someone is doing this. There's lots of things in nix I want to try and use but the tooling and docs are just a bridge too far for me, if someone's goi

I am glad someone is doing this. There's lots of things in nix I want to try and use but the tooling and docs are just a bridge too far for me, if someone's going to give the initial ux a do over then I'm down for that!

grhmc 4y ago
Thanks, Jorge! I think the nix3 interface and the Flakes solve a lot of UX problems. Maybe we could do a bit of a user study, to see where you get hung up?
- Athas 4y ago
  Don't those still give you a terrible error message if you use them in a default config?
  - grhmc 4y ago
    They do, and using the installer we recommend enables Flakes and the Nix command out of the box: https://zero-to-nix.com/start/install#up https://zero-to-nix.com/start/install#up. We think flakes and the new interface are the future, and we're working to bring it home.
- unshavedyak 4y ago
  What's the `nix3 interface`? I use NixOS with Flakes, but frankly it's quite obtuse lol. I don't even know how to specifically update my `nix`. I updated to the latest release the other week and my `nix` CLI is on `2.11`. Are you referencing a 3.0 version of the `nix` CLI? If is there a summary somewhere on what is different between 2.xx and 3.0? Though i still have no clue how to update to 3.0 if i wanted to. Searching for `nix` is incredibly obtuse given the language is Nix and the OS is Nix. (I know i know, Nix, NixOS, Nixpkgs, but you know what i mean)
  - edolstra 4y ago
    It refers to the new CLI, i.e. the "nix" command. The old CLI is the nix-* commands (nix-env, nix-store, etc.). The new CLI and flakes are still marked experimental, but the plan is to stabilize them and call that "3.0". So it won't be very different from the current 2.12 - you just won't need to enable some experimental features anymore to get the new CLI/flakes.
    - the_duke 4y ago
      Do you have an idea when the stabilization might come? I've been using flakes for well over a year and there doesn't seem to be much discernible progress.
      - Macha 4y ago
        Because of politics (see RFC 49, 134, 136), I don't see this actually happening that soon. There is agreement in principle to carve out a store only Nix so the no-flakes crowd can build their own UI on it which is held by them as a pre-requisite to any stabilisation of flakes, along with some bad blood of it being announced by blog post. But it's slow because the project maintainer and chief flakes advocate doesn't want to adjust the project just so an alternative frontend specifically to avoid their view of an easier Nix should go ahead. People are still working somewhat constructively towards this in 134, but because their goals feel fundamentally opposed, it seems likely to go on a while.
        pxc 4y ago
        The Nix team, including the Nix author and chief developer of flakes (upstream in this thread, so be kind all), is also working right now on enabling the nix3 UI for non-flakes setups as well: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2023-01-16-nix-team-meeting-minutes-24/24721 https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2023-01-16-nix-team-meeting-mi... Consensus is hard but I'm glad to see people coming together on this. Really looking forward to seeing the new Nix command and flakes move forward (independently)
        unshavedyak 4y ago
  - JamesSwift 4y ago
    > I don't even know how to specifically update my `nix` I just clean reinstalled when I went from v2 to v3. Thats the great thing about nix... the rebuilt system is still the same after I installed : ) Note that in nix v3, updating nix is a simple `sudo nix upgrade-nix`, which is really nice.
    - unshavedyak 4y ago
      Is that with flakes though? That's my thing, i'm using flakes, and it's difficult to know what is with flakes or without. Updating my root `nixpkgs` did seem to update my `nix` CLI, but that felt a bit heavy handed. I had a difficult time finding out how to override just the Nix CLI version.
      - JamesSwift 4y ago
        Flakes and 'nix command' are actually 2 separate, experimental features. I think the new nix command has some dependence on flakes, but I'm not sure what. I use flakes though, so you should be good as well. I think it would only potentially be an issue for non-flakes? I really, really, really wish they would rip the band-aid off and just have everything assume flakes with an easy opt-out. Let all the newcomers reap the benefits of a massively simplified model.

grhmc 4y ago

Thanks, Jorge! I think the nix3 interface and the Flakes solve a lot of UX problems. Maybe we could do a bit of a user study, to see where you get hung up?

Athas 4y ago
Don't those still give you a terrible error message if you use them in a default config?
- grhmc 4y ago
  They do, and using the installer we recommend enables Flakes and the Nix command out of the box: https://zero-to-nix.com/start/install#up https://zero-to-nix.com/start/install#up. We think flakes and the new interface are the future, and we're working to bring it home.
unshavedyak 4y ago
What's the `nix3 interface`? I use NixOS with Flakes, but frankly it's quite obtuse lol. I don't even know how to specifically update my `nix`. I updated to the latest release the other week and my `nix` CLI is on `2.11`. Are you referencing a 3.0 version of the `nix` CLI? If is there a summary somewhere on what is different between 2.xx and 3.0? Though i still have no clue how to update to 3.0 if i wanted to. Searching for `nix` is incredibly obtuse given the language is Nix and the OS is Nix. (I know i know, Nix, NixOS, Nixpkgs, but you know what i mean)
- edolstra 4y ago
  It refers to the new CLI, i.e. the "nix" command. The old CLI is the nix-* commands (nix-env, nix-store, etc.). The new CLI and flakes are still marked experimental, but the plan is to stabilize them and call that "3.0". So it won't be very different from the current 2.12 - you just won't need to enable some experimental features anymore to get the new CLI/flakes.
  - the_duke 4y ago
    Do you have an idea when the stabilization might come? I've been using flakes for well over a year and there doesn't seem to be much discernible progress.
    - Macha 4y ago
      Because of politics (see RFC 49, 134, 136), I don't see this actually happening that soon. There is agreement in principle to carve out a store only Nix so the no-flakes crowd can build their own UI on it which is held by them as a pre-requisite to any stabilisation of flakes, along with some bad blood of it being announced by blog post. But it's slow because the project maintainer and chief flakes advocate doesn't want to adjust the project just so an alternative frontend specifically to avoid their view of an easier Nix should go ahead. People are still working somewhat constructively towards this in 134, but because their goals feel fundamentally opposed, it seems likely to go on a while.
      - pxc 4y ago
        The Nix team, including the Nix author and chief developer of flakes (upstream in this thread, so be kind all), is also working right now on enabling the nix3 UI for non-flakes setups as well: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2023-01-16-nix-team-meeting-minutes-24/24721 https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2023-01-16-nix-team-meeting-mi... Consensus is hard but I'm glad to see people coming together on this. Really looking forward to seeing the new Nix command and flakes move forward (independently)
        unshavedyak 4y ago
- JamesSwift 4y ago
  > I don't even know how to specifically update my `nix` I just clean reinstalled when I went from v2 to v3. Thats the great thing about nix... the rebuilt system is still the same after I installed : ) Note that in nix v3, updating nix is a simple `sudo nix upgrade-nix`, which is really nice.
  - unshavedyak 4y ago
    Is that with flakes though? That's my thing, i'm using flakes, and it's difficult to know what is with flakes or without. Updating my root `nixpkgs` did seem to update my `nix` CLI, but that felt a bit heavy handed. I had a difficult time finding out how to override just the Nix CLI version.
    - JamesSwift 4y ago
      Flakes and 'nix command' are actually 2 separate, experimental features. I think the new nix command has some dependence on flakes, but I'm not sure what. I use flakes though, so you should be good as well. I think it would only potentially be an issue for non-flakes? I really, really, really wish they would rip the band-aid off and just have everything assume flakes with an easy opt-out. Let all the newcomers reap the benefits of a massively simplified model.