8 ms·

Went hiking while relying on a phone app. Offline, it cached the map no problems, until a few hours in when the TTL must have been triggered then everything dis

by rr888 4y ago

Went hiking while relying on a phone app. Offline, it cached the map no problems, until a few hours in when the TTL must have been triggered then everything disappeared. Bought a real map soon after.

ghaff 4y ago
I won't say I'm religious about it--especially if somewhere familiar--but if I'm being doctrinaire, I'd argue you should always have a physical map and compass while hiking.
- folli 4y ago
  ... and know how to use it ...
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Fair. As someone who grew up with physical maps, using them is pretty intuitive but I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone. And, of course, some aspects of topographic maps take some education. With respect to compass, I'm not sure how critical real orienteering is for most people. It's more about not being totally turned around and/or being able to make sure you hit some feature like a road.
    - purpleflame1257 4y ago
      Just being able to know which way is "north" is probably sufficient.
      - jcranmer 4y ago
        There's a difference between geographic north and magnetic north that can get pretty significant (if you live in NE US, magnetic north about 10-20° west of north). If you're sailing the clipper route, for part of your journey, your magnetic compass now points as far as northwest rather than north.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Hiking in the northeast US, you're generally speaking on trails. I'd certainly encourage people to acquaint themselves with magnetic deviation and so forth. But, especially as a backup mechanism, the main value of a compass is to avoid having absolutely no idea what direction you're going.
        jcranmer 4y ago
        In my recent hiking experience, a lot of trails in the NE--even in popular parks--are pretty poorly marked, and these days, virtually every hiking trip involves at least one point where the trail makes a sharp curve, but there's something that looks trail-ish that continues ahead, and it's only a few hundred feet down the line that you realize you might have missed the trail. The little handheld trail GPS my parents got me after my first such misadventure has proven incredibly useful for figuring out where I made the wrong move. (The first such misadventure, I was using the paper map to work out if there was a bend I missed).
        asdff 4y ago
        A paper map of the given area will tell you what declination to set on your compass
    - 082349872349872 4y ago
      While you're attempting to generally go downstream (think about it), even if you wind up totally turned around, then at least never leave your drainage.
      - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Yup. I didn't know where I was, but knew what drainage I was in, and knew that my car was at the upper end of pavement at the main stream in the drainage. I went downhill until I hit the main stream. Oh, the road is paved? Follow that up to the car. No sweat, even though I really didn't know where I was. Just knowing I was within the drainage was all I needed.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      I love paper maps, but I have to admit I don't use them much. Speaking of the WSJ, my paper copy is waiting out on the driveway. For hands-free reading while you're eating breakfast, it beats the snot out of reading off a screen. Something about the number of words you can read without scrolling. As for orienteering: I learned it once and never used it. (btw, the Sierra Club course where I learned it got cancelled when someone sued over an injury in ice ax practice.)
    - panza 4y ago
      I've seen some otherwise capable people struggle with compasses and map reading. It's a good idea to print out some basic map reading instructions and attach it to the map just in case. That way, anyone else in your family/party will have a running start if something happens to the 'map guy'.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Don't they literally teach that at school ?
rob74 4y ago
Strange... if you store a map for offline viewing in Google Maps, it will be cached for at least a few months - and when that time expires, it will ask you if you want to update it. But I can't vouch for the various hiking apps which may be better for hiking data, but have worse UX overall. Or you can use an "offline-only" app like OSMAnd and feed it with GPX tracks downloaded from hiking sites, then you only have to worry about keeping your battery charged...
- ufmace 4y ago
  Well that's just it - it's probably supposed to do that. But bugs happen, and a phone could die or break for any number of reasons outside of your control. People on the internet trying to explain why some particular failure that you saw shouldn't happen won't be there when you're stuck with no way to navigate, and their arguments won't be of any use. Paper maps are actually immune to most of these failure modes.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Non-laminated paper maps may not survive immersion all that well. On the other hand, your phone may not survive that, either...
- denysonique 4y ago
  If for some reason the offline google maps don't get updated and expire, you are going to be unable use them at all in a critical situation.
- skyfaller 4y ago
  According to CNet, with Google Maps "Transit, bicycling and walking directions are also not available offline -- only driving directions." https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/why-you-should-download-google-maps-offline-before-a-trip-and-how-to-do-it/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/why-you-shou... So Google Maps offline may actually be useless for hiking? This would also explain why I had trouble using Google Maps offline on my last bike trip.
purpleflame1257 4y ago
This is the reason I keep a paper atlas under the seat in my car. Ultimate off-grid redundancy.
jmkb 4y ago
Use an app that permanently downloads maps -- I like Mapy.cz and Organic Maps. And bring a waterproof phone case, an external battery, and a charging cable. And also bring a waterproof paper map because it's lighter, easier to read, more resilient, and more fun.
- petodo 4y ago
  +1 for mapy.cz for hikers, they use OSMaps, but have definitely more hiking trails than osmand or maps.me and better readable
- nicbou 4y ago
  OsmAnd is the pocket knife of cartography. It's by far the most flexible map I've use, although it's not as user-friendly as others. You can really choose what gets rendered and how.
mvexel 4y ago
For hiking and other back country activities, I rely on Gaia GPS, but there's others that offer offline capabilities (sometimes as part of a subscription) like AllTrails, OnX and CalTopo.
kzrdude 4y ago
OsmAnd is very good. You download maps for it. And OSM data in general is a great deal better at hiking trails than google maps. And it's good/useful to know that you can always try to use GPS even in airplane mode. Just GPS is recieve-only so it's passive (but the location service uses multiple sources of information apart from just GPS or GPS-like if it can.)
- kwhitefoot 4y ago
  And Osmand does walking routes while offline which Google Maps does not.
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    Yes, it has offline route finding for car, other transport, and walking. Of course sometimes you really miss having the traffic info from google, but for other things it works fine. I've driven a few 1000 km following OsmAnd..
kwhitefoot 4y ago
Try Osmand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OsmAnd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OsmAnd).
- petodo 4y ago
  or even better Mapy.cz, better interface and better curated hiking trail data than osmand/maps.me
MengerSponge 4y ago
MapOut for iOS is my favorite hiking map app. Excellent offline maps, and it's easy to import GPX files for new trails.

by rr888 4y ago

Went hiking while relying on a phone app. Offline, it cached the map no problems, until a few hours in when the TTL must have been triggered then everything disappeared. Bought a real map soon after.

ghaff 4y ago

I won't say I'm religious about it--especially if somewhere familiar--but if I'm being doctrinaire, I'd argue you should always have a physical map and compass while hiking.

folli 4y ago
... and know how to use it ...
- ghaff 4y ago
  Fair. As someone who grew up with physical maps, using them is pretty intuitive but I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone. And, of course, some aspects of topographic maps take some education. With respect to compass, I'm not sure how critical real orienteering is for most people. It's more about not being totally turned around and/or being able to make sure you hit some feature like a road.
  - purpleflame1257 4y ago
    Just being able to know which way is "north" is probably sufficient.
    - jcranmer 4y ago
      There's a difference between geographic north and magnetic north that can get pretty significant (if you live in NE US, magnetic north about 10-20° west of north). If you're sailing the clipper route, for part of your journey, your magnetic compass now points as far as northwest rather than north.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Hiking in the northeast US, you're generally speaking on trails. I'd certainly encourage people to acquaint themselves with magnetic deviation and so forth. But, especially as a backup mechanism, the main value of a compass is to avoid having absolutely no idea what direction you're going.
        jcranmer 4y ago
        In my recent hiking experience, a lot of trails in the NE--even in popular parks--are pretty poorly marked, and these days, virtually every hiking trip involves at least one point where the trail makes a sharp curve, but there's something that looks trail-ish that continues ahead, and it's only a few hundred feet down the line that you realize you might have missed the trail. The little handheld trail GPS my parents got me after my first such misadventure has proven incredibly useful for figuring out where I made the wrong move. (The first such misadventure, I was using the paper map to work out if there was a bend I missed).
      - asdff 4y ago
        A paper map of the given area will tell you what declination to set on your compass
  - 082349872349872 4y ago
    While you're attempting to generally go downstream (think about it), even if you wind up totally turned around, then at least never leave your drainage.
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      Yup. I didn't know where I was, but knew what drainage I was in, and knew that my car was at the upper end of pavement at the main stream in the drainage. I went downhill until I hit the main stream. Oh, the road is paved? Follow that up to the car. No sweat, even though I really didn't know where I was. Just knowing I was within the drainage was all I needed.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    I love paper maps, but I have to admit I don't use them much. Speaking of the WSJ, my paper copy is waiting out on the driveway. For hands-free reading while you're eating breakfast, it beats the snot out of reading off a screen. Something about the number of words you can read without scrolling. As for orienteering: I learned it once and never used it. (btw, the Sierra Club course where I learned it got cancelled when someone sued over an injury in ice ax practice.)
  - panza 4y ago
    I've seen some otherwise capable people struggle with compasses and map reading. It's a good idea to print out some basic map reading instructions and attach it to the map just in case. That way, anyone else in your family/party will have a running start if something happens to the 'map guy'.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Don't they literally teach that at school ?

rob74 4y ago

Strange... if you store a map for offline viewing in Google Maps, it will be cached for at least a few months - and when that time expires, it will ask you if you want to update it. But I can't vouch for the various hiking apps which may be better for hiking data, but have worse UX overall. Or you can use an "offline-only" app like OSMAnd and feed it with GPX tracks downloaded from hiking sites, then you only have to worry about keeping your battery charged...

ufmace 4y ago
Well that's just it - it's probably supposed to do that. But bugs happen, and a phone could die or break for any number of reasons outside of your control. People on the internet trying to explain why some particular failure that you saw shouldn't happen won't be there when you're stuck with no way to navigate, and their arguments won't be of any use. Paper maps are actually immune to most of these failure modes.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Non-laminated paper maps may not survive immersion all that well. On the other hand, your phone may not survive that, either...
denysonique 4y ago
If for some reason the offline google maps don't get updated and expire, you are going to be unable use them at all in a critical situation.
skyfaller 4y ago
According to CNet, with Google Maps "Transit, bicycling and walking directions are also not available offline -- only driving directions." https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/why-you-should-download-google-maps-offline-before-a-trip-and-how-to-do-it/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/why-you-shou... So Google Maps offline may actually be useless for hiking? This would also explain why I had trouble using Google Maps offline on my last bike trip.

purpleflame1257 4y ago

This is the reason I keep a paper atlas under the seat in my car. Ultimate off-grid redundancy.

jmkb 4y ago

Use an app that permanently downloads maps -- I like Mapy.cz and Organic Maps. And bring a waterproof phone case, an external battery, and a charging cable. And also bring a waterproof paper map because it's lighter, easier to read, more resilient, and more fun.

petodo 4y ago
+1 for mapy.cz for hikers, they use OSMaps, but have definitely more hiking trails than osmand or maps.me and better readable
nicbou 4y ago
OsmAnd is the pocket knife of cartography. It's by far the most flexible map I've use, although it's not as user-friendly as others. You can really choose what gets rendered and how.

mvexel 4y ago

For hiking and other back country activities, I rely on Gaia GPS, but there's others that offer offline capabilities (sometimes as part of a subscription) like AllTrails, OnX and CalTopo.

kzrdude 4y ago

OsmAnd is very good. You download maps for it. And OSM data in general is a great deal better at hiking trails than google maps. And it's good/useful to know that you can always try to use GPS even in airplane mode. Just GPS is recieve-only so it's passive (but the location service uses multiple sources of information apart from just GPS or GPS-like if it can.)

kwhitefoot 4y ago
And Osmand does walking routes while offline which Google Maps does not.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  Yes, it has offline route finding for car, other transport, and walking. Of course sometimes you really miss having the traffic info from google, but for other things it works fine. I've driven a few 1000 km following OsmAnd..

kwhitefoot 4y ago

Try Osmand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OsmAnd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OsmAnd).

petodo 4y ago
or even better Mapy.cz, better interface and better curated hiking trail data than osmand/maps.me

MengerSponge 4y ago

MapOut for iOS is my favorite hiking map app. Excellent offline maps, and it's easy to import GPX files for new trails.