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The ones that are worth it happen by themselves. If one or both people are mainly trying to make friends, the driving force is transient & non-intrinsic - at o

The ones that are worth it happen by themselves. If one or both people are mainly trying to make friends, the driving force is transient & non-intrinsic - at odds with that which endures. Whereas with relationships that "just happen", there is a cascade of circumstance and shared interest, and those rise greater than any desire to connect. The connection is intrinsic and unstoppable as opposed to cultivated. Pursue your own interests and the truth of your circumstance as fully as possible, as often as possible, and - crucially - for its own sake. Not to meet others, but to meet more of yourself. Your friends will appear.

beezlebroxxxxxx 4y ago
I think this idea works in some cases. For instance, many childhood friends, or friends that people had when they were growing up, were the result of simply being around the people for so long through classes and through other hobbies or just hanging out. It's very easy to make friends as a child and in adolescence has a result. But for adults, I would say that this is not the best method. It can work, to be sure. But as adults, when various demands pull at your time (be it your job, your family, etc.) you can easily get in a state where... > Pursue your own interests and the truth of your circumstance as fully as possible, as often as possible, and - crucially - for its own sake. Not to meet others, but to meet more of yourself. ...just leaves you still without friends because everyone else is also focusing on themselves and their own interests. This is especially rough in 2023 when people spend so much time online, alone, and so much of their hobbies revolve around being online, alone. I have a lot of friends, and I think I'm pretty good at making and keeping friends. Friendship in adulthood looks different than childhood friendship. One of the ways it does is that it requires a certain amount of concerted effort by both parties to maintain the friendship, at once because you share interests, but also because the reciprocal effort is part of the friendship, it's constitutive of the very loyalty that typifies great friendships. It's about how despite all those competing demands on someone's time, you still decide to spend time together as friends. It will feel unnatural and like "work" only because the preexisting social context of school or a job does a lot of work in the background. But once you realize that making and maintaining friendships takes a certain kind of effort, you can find it very rewarding. You also have the benefit of making lots of people different from yourself your friend, which people could probably use more of nowadays. I'm far more left leaning than some of my friends, but one thing that I think saves me from going completely off the deep end like some people I know is the exposure to alternative POVs that I get from my more right leaning friends.
- detrites 4y ago
  This is a good point - effort can lead to essential social counterbalance. Someone I enjoy time with for the different POV however, may be more likely to also not be what I'd think of as a friend. (An uber driver for example.) Perhaps its similar to this place - I wouldn't necessarily consider folks here "friends", but I yet may just as deeply value some of these interactions specifically for the different ideas and opinions they expose me to. Thanks for this one :)
travisporter 4y ago
I’ve been that guy at classes, outings that never makes any long lasting friends. Maybe I haven’t done enough but I find it just too awk to talk about nothing.
- detrites 4y ago
  Oh I hear you - I can't stand talking about nothing/"small-talk". Anytime a conversation feels too forced for too long, I find a way out. Sounds like you value genuine interaction, which can be harder to find. But most worthwhile.
colanderman 4y ago
I disagree. Shared interest/circumstance may be a prerequisite to friendship, but friendship takes active effort. This is a simple consequence of the fact that the logistics of making time in one's schedule to see others, coordinating activities, emotional labor to support friends, etc., all are also prerequisite to friendship, and themselves take effort. This is especially true because (I forget where I read this), statistically, most of your friends will be less socially assertive than you. I know personally, if I stopped putting in effort to friendships -- positive friendships which bring net value into my life! -- all but maybe one or two would wither away, simply for want of ever seeing or interacting with each other.
- detrites 4y ago
  These points seem to be about maintaining existing relationships. The OP was asking about beginning them. These are different phases with different levels of excitement, coincidence and time-allocation built-in.
  - colanderman 4y ago
    I think my point still applies to making friends. Someone has to put in the emotional and logistical effort to schedule a first "hey, let's get together outside of work/school" evening. That can be a big hurdle to clear. And then a second meetup. And a third... until you are actually "friends" and not "two randos with shared interest who tried to meet up once and it was awkward". Finding potential friends, I agree with your advice. Following your own interests makes you an interesting and attractive person, and finding people who share your interests sets you up for healthy friendships.
    - detrites 4y ago
      Sure it can happen like that, but it's not the only way. No effort is required to begin a friendship that happens automatically. Both naturally organise a next meet, and/or already have reason to and/or happily can't avoid it. Relationships often begin at work/edu for this reason. The times I've been assertive and essentially built a connection out of what was nothing, it's been interesting, even exhilarating - but less reliably enduring. It's tended to be better to begin with a bigger "spark". And if that spark isn't enough to create a shared excitement that automatically leads to a next step, without requiring effort, it may mean it's not worth such effort. (Not always, though.)

beezlebroxxxxxx 4y ago

I think this idea works in some cases. For instance, many childhood friends, or friends that people had when they were growing up, were the result of simply being around the people for so long through classes and through other hobbies or just hanging out. It's very easy to make friends as a child and in adolescence has a result. But for adults, I would say that this is not the best method. It can work, to be sure. But as adults, when various demands pull at your time (be it your job, your family, etc.) you can easily get in a state where... > Pursue your own interests and the truth of your circumstance as fully as possible, as often as possible, and - crucially - for its own sake. Not to meet others, but to meet more of yourself. ...just leaves you still without friends because everyone else is also focusing on themselves and their own interests. This is especially rough in 2023 when people spend so much time online, alone, and so much of their hobbies revolve around being online, alone. I have a lot of friends, and I think I'm pretty good at making and keeping friends. Friendship in adulthood looks different than childhood friendship. One of the ways it does is that it requires a certain amount of concerted effort by both parties to maintain the friendship, at once because you share interests, but also because the reciprocal effort is part of the friendship, it's constitutive of the very loyalty that typifies great friendships. It's about how despite all those competing demands on someone's time, you still decide to spend time together as friends. It will feel unnatural and like "work" only because the preexisting social context of school or a job does a lot of work in the background. But once you realize that making and maintaining friendships takes a certain kind of effort, you can find it very rewarding. You also have the benefit of making lots of people different from yourself your friend, which people could probably use more of nowadays. I'm far more left leaning than some of my friends, but one thing that I think saves me from going completely off the deep end like some people I know is the exposure to alternative POVs that I get from my more right leaning friends.

detrites 4y ago
This is a good point - effort can lead to essential social counterbalance. Someone I enjoy time with for the different POV however, may be more likely to also not be what I'd think of as a friend. (An uber driver for example.) Perhaps its similar to this place - I wouldn't necessarily consider folks here "friends", but I yet may just as deeply value some of these interactions specifically for the different ideas and opinions they expose me to. Thanks for this one :)

travisporter 4y ago

I’ve been that guy at classes, outings that never makes any long lasting friends. Maybe I haven’t done enough but I find it just too awk to talk about nothing.

detrites 4y ago
Oh I hear you - I can't stand talking about nothing/"small-talk". Anytime a conversation feels too forced for too long, I find a way out. Sounds like you value genuine interaction, which can be harder to find. But most worthwhile.

colanderman 4y ago

I disagree. Shared interest/circumstance may be a prerequisite to friendship, but friendship takes active effort. This is a simple consequence of the fact that the logistics of making time in one's schedule to see others, coordinating activities, emotional labor to support friends, etc., all are also prerequisite to friendship, and themselves take effort. This is especially true because (I forget where I read this), statistically, most of your friends will be less socially assertive than you. I know personally, if I stopped putting in effort to friendships -- positive friendships which bring net value into my life! -- all but maybe one or two would wither away, simply for want of ever seeing or interacting with each other.

detrites 4y ago
These points seem to be about maintaining existing relationships. The OP was asking about beginning them. These are different phases with different levels of excitement, coincidence and time-allocation built-in.
- colanderman 4y ago
  I think my point still applies to making friends. Someone has to put in the emotional and logistical effort to schedule a first "hey, let's get together outside of work/school" evening. That can be a big hurdle to clear. And then a second meetup. And a third... until you are actually "friends" and not "two randos with shared interest who tried to meet up once and it was awkward". Finding potential friends, I agree with your advice. Following your own interests makes you an interesting and attractive person, and finding people who share your interests sets you up for healthy friendships.
  - detrites 4y ago
    Sure it can happen like that, but it's not the only way. No effort is required to begin a friendship that happens automatically. Both naturally organise a next meet, and/or already have reason to and/or happily can't avoid it. Relationships often begin at work/edu for this reason. The times I've been assertive and essentially built a connection out of what was nothing, it's been interesting, even exhilarating - but less reliably enduring. It's tended to be better to begin with a bigger "spark". And if that spark isn't enough to create a shared excitement that automatically leads to a next step, without requiring effort, it may mean it's not worth such effort. (Not always, though.)