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Building codes changing and earthquake resistant construction: plumbing is more flexible and less durable, shake resistance technology evolves enough to make ol

Building codes changing and earthquake resistant construction: plumbing is more flexible and less durable, shake resistance technology evolves enough to make old building deprecated (or the house is straight build with light wood with a set life expectancy)

rwmj 4y ago
This is the reason often stated, but I don't think it's always the true reason. I think people just don't want to live in a house that another family lived in if they have the choice (rental apartments seem to be different). Also if it was true then people wouldn't be living in any house older than 30 years since they'd fear death by earthquake. But that's not true - I know loads of Japanese people who have lived in their house for more than 30 years. It's only when the land changes hands that it suddenly becomes vitally important to implement this rule.
- numpad0 4y ago
  It's not just regulations and earthquake resistance, thermal and noise insulation too improve over time, following economic growth.
  - pezezin 4y ago
    My experience living in Japan is that thermal and noise insulation is pretty much non-existent here.
    - makeitdouble 4y ago
      It costs a bunch. Renting a reasonably priced standard room in Tokyo won't land such perks. Going up to family size appartments in recently built middle-class complexes will usually come with pretty good insulation and you won't hear a baby crying at top volume.
      - pezezin 4y ago
        The sad thing is that I live in Aomori, and the construction quality here is abysmal. I would understand the lack of proper insulation in warmer areas, but in Tohoku and Hokkaido? And don't get me started on the lack of proper central heating and the use of the stupid portable kerosene heaters. Today I heard from a guy who is working for the village office that the most common emergency call now in winter are from elder people who suffered thermal shock inside their own houses when walking from a warm room to an almost frozen room.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Earthquakes’ influence isn’t just about when they happen. I might be hard to visualize but the actual structure and materials need to change to adapt. For instance in europe lead pipes were widely used for the internal plumbing and nowadays it’s replaced by rigid and pretty durable polymers. The plumbing goes into the walls, floors, etc. to each place where water goes. Except that doesn’t work if your walls and floor can shake. You don’t want pipes break into your walls and leak internally. So pipes can’t be rigid, and you’ll have to compromise on durability for flexibility. When buying an appartment, our plumbing was rated for 30 years. After that, even if everything else is in a perfect state, we’d all have to tear down the building walls and change the plumbing. It can be done, but cost wise it’s not so far from rebuilding from scratch. Public buildings get away with way longer life by either paying for way more expensive techniques, and/or having the plumbing and any other things that could need inspection or maintenance put outside the walls. It works great, but is ugly as fuck and can have other practical issues (all pipes being exposed has weird safety issues, some europeans house do that and it’s really not great) And that’s just plumbing. PS: the second hand housing market is actually super healthy. In particular you get to see how the buildings and neighbors are doing after a few years, and the risk of a bad surprise is that much lower. PS2: you can live longer than 30y in a house/appartment. Its value just plummets, except if you prove you made all the recommended updates to extend its useful life. It’s basically the same as keeping a car for 40 years. It can be done, but it’s not the generic nor recommended use case.

rwmj 4y ago

This is the reason often stated, but I don't think it's always the true reason. I think people just don't want to live in a house that another family lived in if they have the choice (rental apartments seem to be different). Also if it was true then people wouldn't be living in any house older than 30 years since they'd fear death by earthquake. But that's not true - I know loads of Japanese people who have lived in their house for more than 30 years. It's only when the land changes hands that it suddenly becomes vitally important to implement this rule.

numpad0 4y ago
It's not just regulations and earthquake resistance, thermal and noise insulation too improve over time, following economic growth.
- pezezin 4y ago
  My experience living in Japan is that thermal and noise insulation is pretty much non-existent here.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    It costs a bunch. Renting a reasonably priced standard room in Tokyo won't land such perks. Going up to family size appartments in recently built middle-class complexes will usually come with pretty good insulation and you won't hear a baby crying at top volume.
    - pezezin 4y ago
      The sad thing is that I live in Aomori, and the construction quality here is abysmal. I would understand the lack of proper insulation in warmer areas, but in Tohoku and Hokkaido? And don't get me started on the lack of proper central heating and the use of the stupid portable kerosene heaters. Today I heard from a guy who is working for the village office that the most common emergency call now in winter are from elder people who suffered thermal shock inside their own houses when walking from a warm room to an almost frozen room.
makeitdouble 4y ago
Earthquakes’ influence isn’t just about when they happen. I might be hard to visualize but the actual structure and materials need to change to adapt. For instance in europe lead pipes were widely used for the internal plumbing and nowadays it’s replaced by rigid and pretty durable polymers. The plumbing goes into the walls, floors, etc. to each place where water goes. Except that doesn’t work if your walls and floor can shake. You don’t want pipes break into your walls and leak internally. So pipes can’t be rigid, and you’ll have to compromise on durability for flexibility. When buying an appartment, our plumbing was rated for 30 years. After that, even if everything else is in a perfect state, we’d all have to tear down the building walls and change the plumbing. It can be done, but cost wise it’s not so far from rebuilding from scratch. Public buildings get away with way longer life by either paying for way more expensive techniques, and/or having the plumbing and any other things that could need inspection or maintenance put outside the walls. It works great, but is ugly as fuck and can have other practical issues (all pipes being exposed has weird safety issues, some europeans house do that and it’s really not great) And that’s just plumbing. PS: the second hand housing market is actually super healthy. In particular you get to see how the buildings and neighbors are doing after a few years, and the risk of a bad surprise is that much lower. PS2: you can live longer than 30y in a house/appartment. Its value just plummets, except if you prove you made all the recommended updates to extend its useful life. It’s basically the same as keeping a car for 40 years. It can be done, but it’s not the generic nor recommended use case.