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I find it sad that the knowledge of how to use calculators has declined, and as a result there is less market need for them, so they get discontinued (especiall

by jwr 4y ago

I find it sad that the knowledge of how to use calculators has declined, and as a result there is less market need for them, so they get discontinued (especially the good ones). I find a good engineering calculator indispensable. The HP-15C is a really great one, although I usually prefer to use a much older HP-25 — it has most of the functions I need, and it can be used single-handed, which is a Big Deal. I even designed a Qi battery pack to make it useful in everyday life :-) https://partsbox.com/blog/wireless-charging-for-a-hp-25-calculator-05-2021.html https://partsbox.com/blog/wireless-charging-for-a-hp-25-calc... I think learning an HP calc is a great investment of any engineer's time. For practical use, I find the HP-12C to be most useful for everyday things (because of percentage functions and date calculations), HP-25 for mechanical engineering and anything where I need to use a calculator one-handed, otherwise the HP-90 was the pinnacle of calculators in my opinion and I really like its unit-handling library. Do not automatically assume that the more recent HP Prime is "better" — in my opinion it is a contraption designed for university students, and I don't find it as useful for actual real work as earlier models. The HP-15C is great, too, but I never use most of its functionality — for things like matrices there really are better tools. So you often end up using a small subset of what it can do, just to get the nice form factor. On iOS, there are two apps that I'd recommend: "RPN-25 CE" is a great HP-25 emulator, and "Touch RPN" provides fast modern versions of the 12C, 15C and 16C (a programmer's calculator which I really like when writing embedded software).

elektrontamer 4y ago
Why would I even bother investing time and money in a calculator when I can write a quick script in Python and not only do the computation but print sexy graphs as well? It's just more electronic waste in my opinion.
shapefrog 4y ago
I "got back into calculators" recently (middle age is sad), rediscovering the graphical calculators of my schooling days. Maybe at the time I knew how to use it properly, but re-learning how to use it now made me appreciate the power. I did make me wonder if taught properly, or I had shown more interest how many extra marks I would have gotten in exams.
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  I blew a TON of lawn-mowing money on the first graphing calculator I ever saw in probably 1987. It was a Casio, and it was AWESOME at the time. I wish I still had it.
  - mschaef 4y ago
    > It was a Casio, and it was AWESOME at the time. I wish I still had it. Casio 7000? I remember those being truly trendsetting. (And some of the later Casio's even introduced color.)
    - ubermonkey 4y ago
      That's it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_fx-7000G https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_fx-7000G the screenshots on the Wiki article are giving me great nostalgia vibes.
jsnell 4y ago
When things get discontinued at the mass market level, it just means there is space for niche players. I'd argue that anyone wanting a classic HP-style calculator today is better off with one of the SwissMicros clones than a used original HP or a phone app: https://www.swissmicros.com/products https://www.swissmicros.com/products (I have a DM42, and it is great as an object to fetishize the past. But in all honesty, it doesn't get that much use because the vast majority of the time, if I need to calculate something I'm already at a computer and reaching for the calculate is just more effort than opening a spreadsheet or a terminal window.)
- mschaef 4y ago
  > I have a DM42, and it is great as an object to fetishize the past. But in all honesty, it doesn't get that much use because the vast majority of the time, if I need to calculate something I'm already at a computer and reaching for the calculate is just more effort than opening a spreadsheet or a terminal window.) Same experience here. I have a drawer full of HP's that never get used. Either the computer or a phone is always at hand. This was definitely untrue during the calculator's professional heyday 30-40 years ago. I do have a 42 emulator on my phone that I use for occasional light calculations (tips, etc.). I used too much RPN in my formative years to enjoy using an algebraic calculator.
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  though swissmicro adds huge value to these calculators, the buttons are sub-par.
- jwr 4y ago
  Personally, I am somewhat surprised that people like the HP-42. I don't find it to be a good compromise at all. The calculators that I like using are ones that are either relatively simple and small and don't try to do too much (like HP-25, HP-11C, HP-12C), or ones that are complex, but do unique things that are very useful (like unit conversions in the HP-50G). The 42 is neither. As to sitting at a computer, I guess it depends on what your calculations are and how quickly you can reach for a calculator (mine sits smack dab in the middle of my desk, between the split halves of my keyboard). But a spreadsheet won't let me quickly multiply values that are in microns and get an answer in engineering notation. I am also not advocating for "graphing calculators" — plotting functions on a calculator makes no sense these days, nor do matrix computations. The sweet spot has moved in the direction of simpler calculators, because you are not likely to do anything complex (like graphing) on a calculator today.
p_l 4y ago
Which calculator do you mean by HP-90? I tried to find the specific model but couldn't find anything not desktop-sized.
- jwr 4y ago
  I meant HP-50G :-) (sorry, not sure what happened there)
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> I find it sad that the knowledge of how to use calculators has declined, and as a result there is less market need for them, so they get discontinued (especially the good ones). It's probably because most jobs don't need them anymore, any calculations are done in pre-made software now, or in Excel. I've not had a need for a calculator other than fairly basic arithmetic (what's 10+9?) for years.

by jwr 4y ago

elektrontamer 4y ago

Why would I even bother investing time and money in a calculator when I can write a quick script in Python and not only do the computation but print sexy graphs as well? It's just more electronic waste in my opinion.

shapefrog 4y ago

I "got back into calculators" recently (middle age is sad), rediscovering the graphical calculators of my schooling days. Maybe at the time I knew how to use it properly, but re-learning how to use it now made me appreciate the power. I did make me wonder if taught properly, or I had shown more interest how many extra marks I would have gotten in exams.

ubermonkey 4y ago
I blew a TON of lawn-mowing money on the first graphing calculator I ever saw in probably 1987. It was a Casio, and it was AWESOME at the time. I wish I still had it.
- mschaef 4y ago
  > It was a Casio, and it was AWESOME at the time. I wish I still had it. Casio 7000? I remember those being truly trendsetting. (And some of the later Casio's even introduced color.)
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    That's it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_fx-7000G https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_fx-7000G the screenshots on the Wiki article are giving me great nostalgia vibes.

jsnell 4y ago

When things get discontinued at the mass market level, it just means there is space for niche players. I'd argue that anyone wanting a classic HP-style calculator today is better off with one of the SwissMicros clones than a used original HP or a phone app: https://www.swissmicros.com/products https://www.swissmicros.com/products (I have a DM42, and it is great as an object to fetishize the past. But in all honesty, it doesn't get that much use because the vast majority of the time, if I need to calculate something I'm already at a computer and reaching for the calculate is just more effort than opening a spreadsheet or a terminal window.)

mschaef 4y ago
> I have a DM42, and it is great as an object to fetishize the past. But in all honesty, it doesn't get that much use because the vast majority of the time, if I need to calculate something I'm already at a computer and reaching for the calculate is just more effort than opening a spreadsheet or a terminal window.) Same experience here. I have a drawer full of HP's that never get used. Either the computer or a phone is always at hand. This was definitely untrue during the calculator's professional heyday 30-40 years ago. I do have a 42 emulator on my phone that I use for occasional light calculations (tips, etc.). I used too much RPN in my formative years to enjoy using an algebraic calculator.
waynesonfire 4y ago
though swissmicro adds huge value to these calculators, the buttons are sub-par.
jwr 4y ago
Personally, I am somewhat surprised that people like the HP-42. I don't find it to be a good compromise at all. The calculators that I like using are ones that are either relatively simple and small and don't try to do too much (like HP-25, HP-11C, HP-12C), or ones that are complex, but do unique things that are very useful (like unit conversions in the HP-50G). The 42 is neither. As to sitting at a computer, I guess it depends on what your calculations are and how quickly you can reach for a calculator (mine sits smack dab in the middle of my desk, between the split halves of my keyboard). But a spreadsheet won't let me quickly multiply values that are in microns and get an answer in engineering notation. I am also not advocating for "graphing calculators" — plotting functions on a calculator makes no sense these days, nor do matrix computations. The sweet spot has moved in the direction of simpler calculators, because you are not likely to do anything complex (like graphing) on a calculator today.

p_l 4y ago

Which calculator do you mean by HP-90? I tried to find the specific model but couldn't find anything not desktop-sized.

jwr 4y ago
I meant HP-50G :-) (sorry, not sure what happened there)

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

> I find it sad that the knowledge of how to use calculators has declined, and as a result there is less market need for them, so they get discontinued (especially the good ones). It's probably because most jobs don't need them anymore, any calculations are done in pre-made software now, or in Excel. I've not had a need for a calculator other than fairly basic arithmetic (what's 10+9?) for years.