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I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. They much more frequently intimidate

I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. They much more frequently intimidate, threaten, harass, and abuse those minoritized groups than outright murder them. Maybe that doesn't bother you, either. But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Those violent acts are occurring, nonetheless. The reason it is important to associate these minoritized groups is that they are all being underserved by state and federal law enforcement agencies who permit such terroristic groups to organize with impunity. It is a steadily rising problem, and the longer it's ignored the worse it will get.

lelanthran 4y ago
> I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. No, I specified "causes of deaths/injury of minorities" > But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Neither does making non-factual statements. What's your point? (Here's a factual statement for you - the threat from white supremacists against minorities is so low it's barely a rounding error. You should post numbers displaying that this fact is wrong.) > It is a steadily rising problem, and the longer it's ignored the worse it will get. Look, maybe it is steadily rising, but you are unable to provide percentages here. To us minorities, us experiencing deaths/injury from white supremacists are not even a rounding error. Everyone has a line in the sand where something goes from "that's not a problem" to "we need to work on that". You can't call people ignorant because their personal line in the sand is (for example) "needs to be more than 0.01% of threats against me". Okay, you can (and have) called people ignorant for dismissing threats that are this low-level, but you can't then expect people to not dismiss you as a crackpot.
- mrtesthah 4y ago
  I don't see where I used the word "ignorant". Yes, obviously by statistical cause of death, terrorism will always be a rounding error. However, the goal of terror is always psychological -- to create a culture of fear in which people are afraid to participate in society. That, in combination with law enforcement insufficiently targeting white supremacist organizing, is primarily an issue of social and racial justice. Simply, it's unfair to expect demographic groups which collectively comprise half of the country to put up with this mess.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > I don't see where I used the word "ignorant". Maybe english is not your first language, but this quote of your literally means "ignorant of ..." >>>>> Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country, That's where the word ignorant comes from. > Yes, obviously by statistical cause of death, terrorism will always be a rounding error. However, the goal of terror is always psychological -- to create a culture of fear in which people are afraid to participate in society. This is all way too subjective, and therefore not actionable. We cannot (and should not) exact punitive measures based on what other people feel. We take legal action against perpetrators based on the crimes commit, not what crimes we think they may commit in the future. All those harassment, abuse, whatever you said above, that's legally actionable and I urge anyone, no matter their skin color, on the receiving end of crimes to report the matter and legally pursue it. > That, in combination with law enforcement insufficiently targeting white supremacist organizing, is primarily an issue of social and racial justice. What do you want them arrested for? Being in a white supremacist group is not, last I checked, illegal in and of itself. > Simply, it's unfair to expect demographic groups which collectively comprise half of the country to put up with this mess. The "mess" is in your mind. You are in a minority amongst minorities. Do you not also think that it is unfair to urge measures be taken against people who have committed no crime?
    - mrtesthah 4y ago
      >We take legal action against perpetrators based on the crimes commit, not what crimes we think they may commit in the future. The US legal code includes many crimes of conspiracy, especially for terrorism. That is in fact how most terrorists are caught. Most white supremacist organizing falls under this category. We don't allow ISIS recruiters to use social media, but white supremacists have their own dedicated social network servers (e.g., Gab). We don't allow terror training camps, but white supremacist militias gather openly to practice their technique. The FBI regularly sends undercover agents into the mosques of middle class middle eastern neighborhoods to make sure people there aren't being taught radical Islam, but it's virtually expected for rural christian churches to preach reactionary hate. You can see these ideas on mainstream television, even. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Hk-TLXKlubk https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Hk-TLXKlubk And no, especially after Jan 6th, I am most certainly not in the "minority of minorities" here. There's absolutely a double standard applied and their continued recruitment and armament is a threat to democracy and a peaceful society.

lelanthran 4y ago

> I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. No, I specified "causes of deaths/injury of minorities" > But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Neither does making non-factual statements. What's your point? (Here's a factual statement for you - the threat from white supremacists against minorities is so low it's barely a rounding error. You should post numbers displaying that this fact is wrong.) > It is a steadily rising problem, and the longer it's ignored the worse it will get. Look, maybe it is steadily rising, but you are unable to provide percentages here. To us minorities, us experiencing deaths/injury from white supremacists are not even a rounding error. Everyone has a line in the sand where something goes from "that's not a problem" to "we need to work on that". You can't call people ignorant because their personal line in the sand is (for example) "needs to be more than 0.01% of threats against me". Okay, you can (and have) called people ignorant for dismissing threats that are this low-level, but you can't then expect people to not dismiss you as a crackpot.

mrtesthah 4y ago
I don't see where I used the word "ignorant". Yes, obviously by statistical cause of death, terrorism will always be a rounding error. However, the goal of terror is always psychological -- to create a culture of fear in which people are afraid to participate in society. That, in combination with law enforcement insufficiently targeting white supremacist organizing, is primarily an issue of social and racial justice. Simply, it's unfair to expect demographic groups which collectively comprise half of the country to put up with this mess.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > I don't see where I used the word "ignorant". Maybe english is not your first language, but this quote of your literally means "ignorant of ..." >>>>> Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country, That's where the word ignorant comes from. > Yes, obviously by statistical cause of death, terrorism will always be a rounding error. However, the goal of terror is always psychological -- to create a culture of fear in which people are afraid to participate in society. This is all way too subjective, and therefore not actionable. We cannot (and should not) exact punitive measures based on what other people feel. We take legal action against perpetrators based on the crimes commit, not what crimes we think they may commit in the future. All those harassment, abuse, whatever you said above, that's legally actionable and I urge anyone, no matter their skin color, on the receiving end of crimes to report the matter and legally pursue it. > That, in combination with law enforcement insufficiently targeting white supremacist organizing, is primarily an issue of social and racial justice. What do you want them arrested for? Being in a white supremacist group is not, last I checked, illegal in and of itself. > Simply, it's unfair to expect demographic groups which collectively comprise half of the country to put up with this mess. The "mess" is in your mind. You are in a minority amongst minorities. Do you not also think that it is unfair to urge measures be taken against people who have committed no crime?
  - mrtesthah 4y ago
    >We take legal action against perpetrators based on the crimes commit, not what crimes we think they may commit in the future. The US legal code includes many crimes of conspiracy, especially for terrorism. That is in fact how most terrorists are caught. Most white supremacist organizing falls under this category. We don't allow ISIS recruiters to use social media, but white supremacists have their own dedicated social network servers (e.g., Gab). We don't allow terror training camps, but white supremacist militias gather openly to practice their technique. The FBI regularly sends undercover agents into the mosques of middle class middle eastern neighborhoods to make sure people there aren't being taught radical Islam, but it's virtually expected for rural christian churches to preach reactionary hate. You can see these ideas on mainstream television, even. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Hk-TLXKlubk https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Hk-TLXKlubk And no, especially after Jan 6th, I am most certainly not in the "minority of minorities" here. There's absolutely a double standard applied and their continued recruitment and armament is a threat to democracy and a peaceful society.