3 ms·

that seems pretty antithetical to the concept of 'all powerful'. It doesn't seem like god is too concerned with free will anyway, at least according to the bibl

by mbfg 4y ago

that seems pretty antithetical to the concept of 'all powerful'. It doesn't seem like god is too concerned with free will anyway, at least according to the bible. If you read the story of pharoah and moses, it is clear that god tramps all over pharoah's free will. The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go, instead destined to suffer more carnage from the next plague. Even Babel shows that. God stopped the progress of a peaceful people who were learning, developing and progressing technologically, socially etc. It is probably one of the few examples from the bible where people were actually getting along. God put a stop to that.

bentley 4y ago
> The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart" Not every plague. In the first five plagues, the language “Pharaoh’s heart hardened” or “Pharaoh hardened his heart” is used. As one would expect, Christians often use this to argue that the latter plagues resulting in loss of life would not have occurred had Pharaoh relented early on.
selfhoster11 4y ago
> The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go I am familiar with an explanation for this: the "hardening" was just a reinforcement of what was already there. God didn't make the pharaoh's heart this way from the start. He was already disinclined to let the Israel go, as per his ability to choose freely. Hardening of the heart was just letting him dig in deeper in his conviction (or, if he chose differently, to distance himself away from the old position).
- mbfg 4y ago
  Sounds like translating clear, obvious text to what people want the answer to be. Now explain Babel. "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven.... And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Genesis 11:1-9 " The crime? The people were one, and were making progress.

by mbfg 4y ago

bentley 4y ago

> The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart" Not every plague. In the first five plagues, the language “Pharaoh’s heart hardened” or “Pharaoh hardened his heart” is used. As one would expect, Christians often use this to argue that the latter plagues resulting in loss of life would not have occurred had Pharaoh relented early on.

selfhoster11 4y ago

> The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go I am familiar with an explanation for this: the "hardening" was just a reinforcement of what was already there. God didn't make the pharaoh's heart this way from the start. He was already disinclined to let the Israel go, as per his ability to choose freely. Hardening of the heart was just letting him dig in deeper in his conviction (or, if he chose differently, to distance himself away from the old position).

mbfg 4y ago
Sounds like translating clear, obvious text to what people want the answer to be. Now explain Babel. "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven.... And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Genesis 11:1-9 " The crime? The people were one, and were making progress.