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Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea. I agree, those workers are probably better off working at Foxconn than if they stayed in rural areas and surviv

Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea. I agree, those workers are probably better off working at Foxconn than if they stayed in rural areas and survived by subsistence farming, but it's still a moral grey area. It's akin to saying that slaves lived longer and in better conditions picking cotton in Alabama than growing beans in Africa. It might be true, but it doesn't make it good.

dreamdu5t 15y ago
Your analogy isn't applicable. What made them slaves is they were not allowed to return to Africa to do whatever. The Foxconn workers are not slaves. They can go back to farming or choose another job. An employee who serves you is not a slave because he makes less than you.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  That's not the analogy I was making. I was saying that there is a certain class of worker who, despite their bad conditions, is probably better off than they would be without the job. Forced or free doesn't factor into it; the question is to what extent supporting their employer is a moral act. Obviously forced labor is worse than free, but there's a continuum of ethical labor practices that both slavery and Foxconn (and any other employer) reside on. I was speaking to the ethical quandary of supporting companies on the low end of that scale, if the options for their employees are something even lower.
- Deestan 15y ago
  > They can go back to farming Where? At the government-mandated pick-a-plot-land-for-free fair?
- vacri 15y ago
  What is it with the assumption that every employee is an ex-farmer?
  - nikatwork 15y ago
    Most factory workers are characterized by Western media as being poor, uneducated peasants from rural China who migrate to cities as they have little or no opportunities in their home villages. Now whether this is actually true or not? I don't know.
philwelch 15y ago
A few decades ago, buying anything made in Korea or Japan was fraught with the same moral dilemma. Until we bought so much stuff from Korea and Japan that Korea and Japan turned into rich countries. You could buy stuff that was made in America, but crack open a history book sometime--this was how America became a rich country, too.
- pm90 15y ago
  Nice observation, but are you sure that the analogy is equally applicable? China has a much bigger population than either Korea or Japan...
  - philwelch 15y ago
    Foreign demand only speeds up the process; it's not a necessary component. The Western world went from no industrialization at all to sweatshops and tenements to riches within 150-200 years or so with no rich foreign countries buying their exports. (I'm thinking 1750/1800 to 1950.) That's only three times as long as it took Korea and Japan. China could make the same transformation based entirely on domestic demand the way the Western countries did, but instead, China gets the demand from the Western countries, plus Korea and Japan to speed up the process, plus all the cool technology we've developed to make it go faster. And the relevant population figures aren't China vs. the importing countries, because a lot of Chinese are already rich.
    - vacri 15y ago
      You're missing that it wasn't just factory workers that created all that wealth - current developed nations benefitted massively from the immense amounts of wealth they pulled from the 'new world', an option that is no longer available these days.
      - philwelch 15y ago
        On the other hand, they had 19th century technology. It's hard to tell who's really better off.
Anechoic 15y ago
> Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea Do we know that the Galaxy Nexus is completely Foxconn free? Foxconn may not assemble the phone, but they make a lot of electrical components and Samsung is a Foxconn customer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers
srdev 15y ago
Any sources that the Nexus is actually built in Korea without Foxconn involvement? Samsung is a Foxconn customer.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  Now that you mention it, none that I'd rely on. My initial claim was made based on a cursory glance at the results page for "where is the galaxy nexus made?" Digging a little deeper, it seems some people have Nexii with "Made in China" on the back, whereas some say "Made in Korea". I suspect even the Korean phones are only assembled there.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - srdev 15y ago
    That's a shame. I was hopeful that the Nexus would present an ethical option for smartphones.

dreamdu5t 15y ago

Your analogy isn't applicable. What made them slaves is they were not allowed to return to Africa to do whatever. The Foxconn workers are not slaves. They can go back to farming or choose another job. An employee who serves you is not a slave because he makes less than you.

redthrowaway 15y ago
That's not the analogy I was making. I was saying that there is a certain class of worker who, despite their bad conditions, is probably better off than they would be without the job. Forced or free doesn't factor into it; the question is to what extent supporting their employer is a moral act. Obviously forced labor is worse than free, but there's a continuum of ethical labor practices that both slavery and Foxconn (and any other employer) reside on. I was speaking to the ethical quandary of supporting companies on the low end of that scale, if the options for their employees are something even lower.
Deestan 15y ago
> They can go back to farming Where? At the government-mandated pick-a-plot-land-for-free fair?
vacri 15y ago
What is it with the assumption that every employee is an ex-farmer?
- nikatwork 15y ago
  Most factory workers are characterized by Western media as being poor, uneducated peasants from rural China who migrate to cities as they have little or no opportunities in their home villages. Now whether this is actually true or not? I don't know.

philwelch 15y ago

A few decades ago, buying anything made in Korea or Japan was fraught with the same moral dilemma. Until we bought so much stuff from Korea and Japan that Korea and Japan turned into rich countries. You could buy stuff that was made in America, but crack open a history book sometime--this was how America became a rich country, too.

pm90 15y ago
Nice observation, but are you sure that the analogy is equally applicable? China has a much bigger population than either Korea or Japan...
- philwelch 15y ago
  Foreign demand only speeds up the process; it's not a necessary component. The Western world went from no industrialization at all to sweatshops and tenements to riches within 150-200 years or so with no rich foreign countries buying their exports. (I'm thinking 1750/1800 to 1950.) That's only three times as long as it took Korea and Japan. China could make the same transformation based entirely on domestic demand the way the Western countries did, but instead, China gets the demand from the Western countries, plus Korea and Japan to speed up the process, plus all the cool technology we've developed to make it go faster. And the relevant population figures aren't China vs. the importing countries, because a lot of Chinese are already rich.
  - vacri 15y ago
    You're missing that it wasn't just factory workers that created all that wealth - current developed nations benefitted massively from the immense amounts of wealth they pulled from the 'new world', an option that is no longer available these days.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      On the other hand, they had 19th century technology. It's hard to tell who's really better off.

Anechoic 15y ago

> Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea Do we know that the Galaxy Nexus is completely Foxconn free? Foxconn may not assemble the phone, but they make a lot of electrical components and Samsung is a Foxconn customer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers

srdev 15y ago

Any sources that the Nexus is actually built in Korea without Foxconn involvement? Samsung is a Foxconn customer.

redthrowaway 15y ago
Now that you mention it, none that I'd rely on. My initial claim was made based on a cursory glance at the results page for "where is the galaxy nexus made?" Digging a little deeper, it seems some people have Nexii with "Made in China" on the back, whereas some say "Made in Korea". I suspect even the Korean phones are only assembled there.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- srdev 15y ago
  That's a shame. I was hopeful that the Nexus would present an ethical option for smartphones.