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Java's Ratio: Slightly less than 2 Obj-C's Ratio: Slightly more than 3 Let's see, I can learn Java and get a job building Android apps or a job building web ap

Java's Ratio: Slightly less than 2 Obj-C's Ratio: Slightly more than 3 Let's see, I can learn Java and get a job building Android apps or a job building web apps or a job writing mainframe software or writing desktop software or writing server software or building web services or making video games... ...or... I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps. If you need a job and you're deciding between the two, Java should be a no-brainer. Objective-C is a nice tool to have in your toolbox, but it shouldn't be the one you take out the most.

derefr 15y ago
> I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps. Mac desktop apps too! ;)
teej 15y ago
"I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps." ...And make $250/hr contract rates. There is ludicrous demand for iOS work. I know several enterprising devs who got into Obj-C over Java purely because the pay is insanely good. And give me a break. What serious companies are doing web apps or video games in Java in 2012? Sure, Facebook and Twitter are using Java internally, but only for really specific technical challenges forced on to them by scaling. Objective-C is way more fun from a product perspective because you're close to the user. That is desirable for many.
- iheartmemcache 15y ago
  My firm "only" manages to bill at 175/hr on the East Coast (two offices: Boston and NYC) on iOS work, and we've seen a somewhat steady decline in demand. Things might be different in SV. We're pretty content with the amount of work we've already drawn from iOS development, though, so if the cash cow is dead we won't be too upset.
  - beatle 15y ago
    iOS is just getting started. Android lost 13% US market share in Oct. and Nov. to the iPhone (cnn.com) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3445664 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3445664
    - jlarocco 15y ago
      There's a difference between market share and demand for app developers.
    - ElliotMingee 15y ago
      Important distinction: that's 13% of smartphone sales, not total market share. Numbers for sales available here: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57355900-37/iphone-4s-inches-apple-closer-to-android-in-top-market-share/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57355900-37/iphone-4s-inch... Numbers for total market share here: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/29/apple-and-android-gain-smartphone-marketshare-at-expense-of-rim-and-microsoft/ http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/29/apple-and-android-gain-s...
- bitcracker 15y ago
  > And make $250/hr contract rates. There is ludicrous demand for iOS work. I don't buy this. Any links? How many developers can expect such rates in face of more than 250,000 apps in competition? I think only some big publishing houses would pay this big money because in the long run they would get their money back. Smaller companies would never pay this rate because AFAIK the average income for even very good apps is the range of some thousands or some ten thousand dollars. In case of say 10.000 dollars, all the money would be lost to the developer for just 40 hours of work, that's four days :-)
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    Consulting work for enterprise companies. They aren't selling their app anyways, it's just a checkbox their sales people use to sell the real product.
  - frankdenbow 15y ago
    I know people making $200/hour for iOS work
- vpdn 15y ago
  In Germany, it's way below $250. According to GULP, the largest freelancing website here, the average is around 71EUR/h (around 90USD).
- chc 15y ago
  Ouch. As a (Mac) Objective-C programmer for 10 years now, whenever I see stuff like this, it makes me wince that I passed up iPhone development. (I just didn't like how restrictive Apple's rules on the iPhone are.)
missrobot 15y ago
Ron (of #code2011) did mention something along these lines and I had meant to include it. Thanks for the reminder -- added it into the post with a link to this comment.
masklinn 15y ago
You're not going to "get a job" writing video games in java no, not when you're comparing the number of job openings.

derefr 15y ago

> I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps. Mac desktop apps too! ;)

teej 15y ago

"I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps." ...And make $250/hr contract rates. There is ludicrous demand for iOS work. I know several enterprising devs who got into Obj-C over Java purely because the pay is insanely good. And give me a break. What serious companies are doing web apps or video games in Java in 2012? Sure, Facebook and Twitter are using Java internally, but only for really specific technical challenges forced on to them by scaling. Objective-C is way more fun from a product perspective because you're close to the user. That is desirable for many.

iheartmemcache 15y ago
My firm "only" manages to bill at 175/hr on the East Coast (two offices: Boston and NYC) on iOS work, and we've seen a somewhat steady decline in demand. Things might be different in SV. We're pretty content with the amount of work we've already drawn from iOS development, though, so if the cash cow is dead we won't be too upset.
- beatle 15y ago
  iOS is just getting started. Android lost 13% US market share in Oct. and Nov. to the iPhone (cnn.com) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3445664 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3445664
  - jlarocco 15y ago
    There's a difference between market share and demand for app developers.
  - ElliotMingee 15y ago
    Important distinction: that's 13% of smartphone sales, not total market share. Numbers for sales available here: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57355900-37/iphone-4s-inches-apple-closer-to-android-in-top-market-share/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57355900-37/iphone-4s-inch... Numbers for total market share here: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/29/apple-and-android-gain-smartphone-marketshare-at-expense-of-rim-and-microsoft/ http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/29/apple-and-android-gain-s...
bitcracker 15y ago
> And make $250/hr contract rates. There is ludicrous demand for iOS work. I don't buy this. Any links? How many developers can expect such rates in face of more than 250,000 apps in competition? I think only some big publishing houses would pay this big money because in the long run they would get their money back. Smaller companies would never pay this rate because AFAIK the average income for even very good apps is the range of some thousands or some ten thousand dollars. In case of say 10.000 dollars, all the money would be lost to the developer for just 40 hours of work, that's four days :-)
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  Consulting work for enterprise companies. They aren't selling their app anyways, it's just a checkbox their sales people use to sell the real product.
- frankdenbow 15y ago
  I know people making $200/hour for iOS work
vpdn 15y ago
In Germany, it's way below $250. According to GULP, the largest freelancing website here, the average is around 71EUR/h (around 90USD).
chc 15y ago
Ouch. As a (Mac) Objective-C programmer for 10 years now, whenever I see stuff like this, it makes me wince that I passed up iPhone development. (I just didn't like how restrictive Apple's rules on the iPhone are.)

missrobot 15y ago

Ron (of #code2011) did mention something along these lines and I had meant to include it. Thanks for the reminder -- added it into the post with a link to this comment.

masklinn 15y ago

You're not going to "get a job" writing video games in java no, not when you're comparing the number of job openings.